Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: cecil-kain on July 16, 2011, 07:53:33 PM
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By now, I'm sure many of you have heard about Operation Rainfall. To make a long story short, hardcore gamers came together to demand Nintendo of America release Xenoblade, Last Story, and Pandora's Tower for the Wii. Remarkably, Nintendo issued a public statement refusing to cave to their demands --and I've watched the backlash unfold with some amusement.
On the surface, this has nothing to do with Castlevania. But I thought to myself "are WE any less passionate?" Over the past few years, I've seen many complaints about Konami's treatment of Castlevania on this very forum --with Lords of Shadow being just the most recent example. Once the 25th Anniversary became a non-event, I setup a poll to measure Konami's overall approval rating, and the consensus has been quite remarkable. Out of 56 polled --only 1 strongly approved of Konami. 11 approved. 17 disapproved. 18 strongly disapproved. And 9 additional votes declined to take a stand. Taken altogether, that's a solid, NEGATIVE approval rating of -41.1%.
So what can be done to make sure Konami gets the message? I suggest we follow Operation Rainfall's example, and build a coalition of like-minded, hardcore fans --and then use social media to put pressure on Konami. Priority 1 is to rebuke their emerging failure to celebrate Castlevania's 25th Anniversary, and then explain what they must do to make things right.
Months of talk and recent polling suggests that we want to see Dracula's Curse revisited and updated much like the Dracula X Chronicles. Many of us also want to see IGA given the chance to produce Julius' Demon Castle War. I think demanding these games would be a terrific cause. Make no mistake, Konami sees no reason to continue 2D Castlevania, and they clearly have no intentions to support the mythos we've enjoyed for these past 25 years. As far as they're concerned, we should buy Lords of Shadow 2 and STFU. I repeat --anyone who wants to see 2D Castlevania continue, in any meaningful way, needs to speak out now --or we'll be missing the days of cannibalized code and recycled sprites before we know it..
Clearly, nothing is going to change without a massive outpouring on the part of the fanbase. What do you think? Do you have the talent and the passion to make it all happen? Join me. Sept 26 is Castlevania's 25th Anniversary --that's 2 months to organize a movement and take it to `em. Operation Akumajo lives or dies in this very topic --the next step is up to you.
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As a supporter of Rainfall, I support this as well. What do you propose we do? Should we go about in a similar fashion that Rainfall does with letters and flooding Facebook? Just keep pressuring Konami and maybe we too can garner some kind of response .
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Not to sound negative, but I don't think you'll ever got enough people for this. I'm not sure how many people were involved in that protest you talked about, but even if you would manage to get a whole lot, the "casual fan" would still outnumber them by far. And Konami is obviously catering to that group with Lords of Shadow, so why would they give a damn about old fans?
To be fair, I think this operation is going to be futile, but I'd like to join.
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I have created a Facebook Page with the following mission statement.
We are dedicated to the preservation of Castlevania as we have known it for 25 years --with 2D action-platforming in both the "ClassicVania" and the "Castleroid" formats --and a storyline grounded by the rivalry between Count Dracula and the Belmont Clan.
We are outraged Konami is failing to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of this landmark video game series in any meaningful way whatsoever. Therefore, we are joining together with one voice to make our displeasure known and demand the following concessions.
1. We demand Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse redesigned and remastered in high definition, with state of the art graphics and production values for all HD home consoles.
2. We also demand Koji Igarashi be reinstated to produce a new 2D Castlevania game detailing the "1999 Demon Castle War" as originally described by Aria of Sorrow. We expect this game in high definition, with state of the art graphics and production vales on all HD home consoles.
If you want to join the cause, search for Operation Akumajo on Facebook and "like" the page.
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Not to sound negative, but the difference between OA and OR is that OR gameas were already made and finished, even if Konami /heard/ us still if there are no games in development we won't get anything anyway, that or a super rushed recycled game, want HoD2? Super Judgement? Castlevania Deadly Racers? Go on!
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Not to sound negative, but the difference between OA and OR is that OR gameas were already made and finished, even if Konami /heard/ us still if there are no games in development we won't get anything anyway, that or a super rushed recycled game, want HoD2? Super Judgement? Castlevania Deadly Racers? Go on!
No one ever said that it would be easy to get what we want. I say that we not only complain, but we also should give them our ideas of what should go into the games.
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Not to sound negative, but the difference between OA and OR is that OR gameas were already made and finished, even if Konami /heard/ us still if there are no games in development we won't get anything anyway, that or a super rushed recycled game, want HoD2? Super Judgement? Castlevania Deadly Racers? Go on!
Any professional negotiator will tell you to demand more than you actually expect. Take operation Rainfall, will they get all 3 games that they're demanding from Nintendo? Probably not, but with the negative publicity hurting Nintendo's Wii-U message --I'd be very surprised if NOTHING came from it. In our case, the Anniversary looks more and more like a non-event, that's why the demands are phrased as concessions. Will Konami give us everything we want? Probably not. But it's even more likely we'll get nothing if we demand nothing.
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Wish I could help, but I'm not on Facebook anymore. Also I don't think that Konami will feel pressured by this kind of operation. After all it didn't work with Nintendo. The only way to pressure Konami and any other game company is by boycotting their games. It's a little extreme, but if the sales break down, I think there's a chance to make them reconsider their position.
It's up to us fans to fight for our series, even if it means we'll have to stop buying Castlevania games, or at least the ones that we consider aren't fit to be part of the franchise.
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After Operation: Rainfall's failure, and crappy 25th Anniversary, I've totally given up hope. I know it's definitely not enough hope to muster up any strength or will to fight for this series. My enthusiasm's at a standstill, and frankly, I couldn't care less if it's the end. All I know is that a post-LoS CV series is not one I'll be participating in(have no interest, what-so-ever). Unless Konami gets their head out of their ass and comes up with something REALLY good, it's the end for me. 1987-2011 was a good run.
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Wish I could help, but I'm not on Facebook anymore. Also I don't think that Konami will feel pressured by this kind of operation. After all it didn't work with Nintendo. The only way to pressure Konami and any other game company is by boycotting their games. It's a little extreme, but if the sales break down, I think there's a chance to make them reconsider their position.
It's up to us fans to fight for our series, even if it means we'll have to stop buying Castlevania games, or at least the ones that we consider aren't fit to be part of the franchise.
That's an interesting idea, but it assumes Konami has desirable products to boycott.
ZIIIIING
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After Operation: Rainfall's failure, and crappy 25th Anniversary, I've totally given up hope. I know it's definitely not enough hope to muster up any strength or will to fight for this series. My enthusiasm's at a standstill, and frankly, I couldn't care less if it's the end. All I know is that a post-LoS CV series is not one I'll be participating in(have no interest, what-so-ever). Unless Konami gets their head out of their ass and comes up with something REALLY good, it's the end for me. 1987-2011 was a good run.
I wouldn't call Rainfall a failure --not exactly... Nintendo DID respond, and that in itself is a remarkable achievement. 10 years ago, Nintendo would have snubbed such an effort --but now the social media like Facebook, Youtube, and Fan Forums have broken the corporate PR monopoly. Even now, Nintendo is still being inundated by dedicated followers of Operation Rainfall --something may still come of it.
And about the malaise you're feeling --I get it. But rest assured, you're not alone in your disappointment. We could all lay down and let Konami do what they will --but I won't let Castlevania go without a fight. I hope enough of you feel the same way to get this off the ground.
Wish I could help, but I'm not on Facebook anymore. Also I don't think that Konami will feel pressured by this kind of operation. After all it didn't work with Nintendo. The only way to pressure Konami and any other game company is by boycotting their games. It's a little extreme, but if the sales break down, I think there's a chance to make them reconsider their position.
It's up to us fans to fight for our series, even if it means we'll have to stop buying Castlevania games, or at least the ones that we consider aren't fit to be part of the franchise.
That's an interesting idea, but it assumes Konami has desirable products to boycott.
ZIIIIING
I don't think boycotting Konami products would send the correct message. Boycotts are something to do when you're demanding a company to STOP something that they're already doing. In this case we're demanding Konami START something that they are NOT already doing. It will cost Konami them time, energy, resources, and yes --money-- to meet our demands for high quality 2D Castlevania. So this movement needs to be about our passion and loyalty to traditional Castlevania --this way we encourage their investment. Threatening their bottom line will not take Castlevania to a good place.
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wait wait wait! ~cracks open a beer~ NOW lets go kick some ass!
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I support some form of castlvania love from Konami, but I disagree on Lords of shadow, AND on the 2D stuff.
it isnt "arrogant" if Cox simply wants to show his vision of castlevania. much like IGA showed his own. Cox simply thought that it would be better received by the fanbase than it was. (instead it garnered a serious case of mixed opinions) and do remmeber, he never intended to take over the franchise, he doesnt want a long running thing going on.
also, the reason they seem to have forgotten 2Dvanias is because IGA cant help but make the same game over again- or just makes bad decisions. and they have gotten sort of stale, especially with his hard on for confining gameplay to within the castle. 2D vanias are not without their problems.
all because 2d works is no excuse to skimp on the 3D. IF castlevania was as well funded as koijima, or had the budget and power o mercury steam with LoS, they could make a great 3D vania.
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I like the idea of this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the demands. I'm kind of indifferent to a Dracula's Curse remake, or the idea of demanding a game from them at all. Same thing about IGA: I'd just like to know the current situation with him before demanding his reinstatement or anything like that.
I mean, I'm just as annoyed as anyone else that there's no 25th anniversary stuff (especially with Metal Gear having exponentially higher priority, as usual), but I'd just like to be a little more in the loop of what's happening with the series. I'd like to hear Konami explain exactly why they felt that Castlevania's 25th wasn't worth celebrating, or if IGA will be making any more CV games in the future, or what the future holds for the series in general. If anything, all I really want is for Konami to pass on a little bit of information to us fans, instead of keeping us in the friggin' dark. I think that's the biggest thing for me right now...just the non-promotion of the series and the total lack of info or news of any kind.
(And as far as boycotting, I don't think I'd ever do that with this series, but maybe I'd boycott their precious Metal Gear. :p )
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I support some form of castlvania love from Konami, but I disagree on Lords of shadow, AND on the 2D stuff.
it isnt "arrogant" if Cox simply wants to show his vision of castlevania. much like IGA showed his own. Cox simply thought that it would be better received by the fanbase than it was. (instead it garnered a serious case of mixed opinions) and do remmeber, he never intended to take over the franchise, he doesnt want a long running thing going on.
also, the reason they seem to have forgotten 2Dvanias is because IGA cant help but make the same game over again- or just makes bad decisions. and they have gotten sort of stale, especially with his hard on for confining gameplay to within the castle. 2D vanias are not without their problems.
all because 2d works is no excuse to skimp on the 3D. IF castlevania was as well funded as koijima, or had the budget and power o mercury steam with LoS, they could make a great 3D vania.
This isn't about Cox, Lords of Shadow, or even 3D for that matter. It's about the very real possibility that 2D Castlevania and the traditional mythos are both finished. David Cox said "Forget what you know about Castlevania" not because he personally wanted to take over the franchise, but because Konami intends to replace Castlevania (as we have known it) with a new IP by the same name. And yes, IMO the delivery and demeanor of the sales pitch was indeed arrogant.
There are legitimate complaints with many of the recent 2D games. Harmony of despair is a colossal example of the recycled sprites and environments fans have complained about for years. The knee-jerk reaction is to blame IGA, which I understand. But the fact of the matter is that Konami has insisted on giving Castlevania D-list treatment by condemning the 2-D series to technically inferior portables for nearly 14 years. And rather than investing in those games to reach their full potential, Konami clearly put quantity ahead of quality --and gave us a "cookie-cutter" experience. The Dracula X Chronicles was a BIG step in the right direction but Konami made a couple of BIG mistakes. First they released the game on the PSP instead of giving it the full HD treatment of a console release. And secondly, the gameplay was a tad too retro for mass consuption --a little tweaking to loosen Richter's tight controls would have gone a long way to improve the reviews and ultimately the sales.
As for 3D Castlevania --it's clearly not for everyone. I don't mind seeing Lords of Shadow continue, but not as 2D Castlevania's replacement.
I like the idea of this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the demands. I'm kind of indifferent to a Dracula's Curse remake, or the idea of demanding a game from them at all. Same thing about IGA: I'd just like to know the current situation with him before demanding his reinstatement or anything like that.
I mean, I'm just as annoyed as anyone else that there's no 25th anniversary stuff (especially with Metal Gear having exponentially higher priority, as usual), but I'd just like to be a little more in the loop of what's happening with the series. I'd like to hear Konami explain exactly why they felt that Castlevania's 25th wasn't worth celebrating, or if IGA will be making any more CV games in the future, or what the future holds for the series in general. If anything, all I really want is for Konami to pass on a little bit of information to us fans, instead of keeping us in the friggin' dark. I think that's the biggest thing for me right now...just the non-promotion of the series and the total lack of info or news of any kind.
(And as far as boycotting, I don't think I'd ever do that with this series, but maybe I'd boycott their precious Metal Gear. :p )
There's plenty of time to build consensus on specific demands. But based on the polls and various conversations on this very forum, I think Dracula's Curse and the Demon Castle War would go over VERY well if given the proper treatment. But you're right --there's a lot we don't know. Unfortunately, Konami's recent statements and activities give us little cause for faith.
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Really, this whole forum has a voice and it is that the forum IS the voice. I have no clue if Konami even looks at this or what not, but this is the voice, and in all, they either probably like to watch the thoughts of what Castlevania SHOULD be, but they really just ignore us because they probably find us as a threat to their market or of the sorts. What Konami needs to do, even if they already have a Castlevania games in the moment as we speak, they need to do something with the hardcore fans like us by doing the MegaMan Legends 3 Dev Room for us so that they can give the fans a shot and let us make the perfect Castlevania we always wanted. If not, make it 2 Dev Rooms because there are 2 ways to play a Castlevania, and that is Classic and MetroidVania. But I have full love and respect for Konami, but they need to open their minds to the fans instead of keeping themselves cramped up in their very own shells. Just a thought over the Dev Rooms, would be neat, even for those who cannot even make fan games but have a very complex imagination of what Castlevania should have always been.
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but they really just ignore us because they probably find us as a threat to their market or of the sorts.
;D That would be the ultimate in a publisher's contempt for its fanbase. The sad part is, I wouldn't be too surprised if this were true.
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The Dracula X Chronicles was a BIG step in the right direction but Konami made a couple of BIG mistakes.
I completely agree with this.
When people tend to bash IGA for his recent Castlevania efforts they always tend to neglect the fact that IGA is still pretty capable of making a great CV experiance for the fanbase as evident by Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
As far as ratings goes it was a instant hit but as its been pointed out the fact is that Konami just refused to follow up on this in a big way.
Imagine if Konami actually gave IGA a big budject and he made a HD 2.5D CV game similar to CVDXC for the consoles.
Imagine if he actually got Konami to properly advertise and promote such a game.
In my honest opinion it could have been a instant CV classic that would have definitely gave us CV fans alot to be happy for but instead we got Judgement and LOS.
All I am saying is that all the blame is not on IGA here when it comes to castlevania's 2D standing.
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Say what you will, Castlevania games are still better advertised than Mega Man games, which havent been properly advertised since the early 2000's and never properly advertised on western shores, we only get 1 or 2 shitty commercials and magazine ads. Although with the advent of digital everything, its easier to advertise that way. The Mega Man ZX promo trailer was all over the internet when it came out. Especially all over videogame sites.
As for 3D Castlevania --it's clearly not for everyone. I don't mind seeing Lords of Shadow continue, but not as 2D Castlevania's replacement.
I never said that though. I just want a 3D IGAvania that's actually good. after watching a 64 playthrough, I can see that one of the things it did right was
A. atmosphere, and B. platforming. as frustrating as it might have been- it actually existed, as opposed to say- LoI which is just a Dungeon crawler.
Also, I CANNOT imagine why it is so hard to transition the Metroidvania style into the 3rd dimension. LoI failed despite it's attempt, and CoD is still a dungeon crawler.
I mean, the BEST and BIGGESt possibility opens up when you realize that with a 3D metroidvania, that flat mazelike map now has a 3rd dimension. you can make a castle potentially BIGGER than even symphony or Dawn's castles. the possibilities are endless there when you arent restricted to only moving forward and backward, but left and right.
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Such a project already exists.
Perhaps you should look at the "Castlevania Syndicate" on Twitter.
Castlevania Syndicat on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/CVSyndicate)
This Twitter group wants to do just that; bring attention and awareness to what Castlevania fans really want.
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Such a project already exists.
Perhaps you should look at the "Castlevania Syndicate" on Twitter.
Castlevania Syndicate on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/CVSyndicate)
This Twitter group wants to do just that; bring attention and awareness to what Castlevania fans really want.
Well, this is interesting... Looks like they're just getting started too --let's see who's in charge...
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That's an interesting idea, but it assumes Konami has desirable products to boycott.
ZIIIIING
Hmm so according to you Castlevania is dead. I don't agree. The 2D games are good, and they could have been better if IGA's team had enough time and budget to develop their games. I think it's worth it to try to save the franchise.I don't know about you, but I'm sure a lot of people agree with me.Plus I didn't like Konami's attitude towards the fanbase. May I remind you that they completely ignored the 25th anniversary, or at least that's how i see it because what they gave us isn't exactly what you expect for an anniversary.
EDIT:About the boycott, I know I didn't make myself clear about it. It's because I didn't want a part of the fanbase to feel that I'm targeting them. I'm talking about the ones who actuallly liked LoS. We all want to play a 3D Castlevania that can be just as good as the 2D games, or even better. But up till now, neither Cox or IGA have succeded in making THE 3D Castlevania game that we're all expecting. For Cox's defense, it's his first attempt at making a 3D Castlevania , so there's little chance he will succeed on his first try. But what if he couldn't make such a game? I fear that we might get stuck with 3D games that aren't as satisfying as the 2D ones. As long as those game sell, Konami will continue on making them. That's how the video game industry works. They only think in terms of profit, and we the fans are the ones suffering from it.
I'm not saying we should start boycotting CV right now. Maybe we should give Cox a second chance to really prove that he can come up with a great 3D Castlevania game. Besides we're not really sure if IGA's not working on a CV. So boycott should be used as a final resort. In the meantime, we should voice our dissatisfaction with the way Konami is treating us and the franchise.
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Boycott? really? Do you think you are enough people to boycott?? I don't think your ways are the right ones...
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PLEASE NO BOYCOTTS!
I have no doubt that quite a few angry fans will boycott Lords of Shadow 2 privately, and that's their right. But right now we need to focus on a positive message to build this coalition and establish the strength of our numbers. The hardcore gaming community needs to sympathize with us, or they won't join our cause. Boycotting Konami products will create a rift between the Castlevania community and Konami's other hardcore fans --we DON"T want that! Those crossover fans from Contra, Metal Gear, and Silent Hill could be they key to winning the PR war... None of them will want to join us if we're boycotting their favorite games! So let's keep our focus on celebrating and restoring Castlevania. That will be a message that we can take all the way to the top. Don't worry, we can be provocative and aggressive without threatening Konami's bottom line.
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Any plans on getting over the "Forget what you think you know about Castlevania" comment that was obviously made in regards to Lords of Shadow not being a part of the main series?
Of all the things to latch onto and be offended about..
Seriously, the constant shit slinging towards Lords of Shadow and David Cox (admittedly sometimes he does need to keep his mouth shut) is getting old.
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I'm totally in on this. Usually things like this, I'd reply with "Srsly? This is getting old.", but I've never actually been more involved with a series than CV (and Resident Evil, but that's a whole different story).
Honestly, yeah. I wish Konami would have given IGA a more appropriate budget and timeframe. Maybe then we wouldn't have to see the same enemies over and over. Maybe HD could have been something much, much, much more (even though IGA did state it was a test to see how multiplayer would be received).
In any case, yeah, I'm in. I just hope IGA stays. I started off with his games and I've grown quite attached to the universe he and his team have built up. No one's for sure yet if he's gone though.
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I'm totally in on this. Usually things like this, I'd reply with "Srsly? This is getting old.", but I've never actually been more involved with a series than CV (and Resident Evil, but that's a whole different story).
Honestly, yeah. I wish Konami would have given IGA a more appropriate budget and timeframe. Maybe then we wouldn't have to see the same enemies over and over. Maybe HD could have been something much, much, much more (even though IGA did state it was a test to see how multiplayer would be received).
In any case, yeah, I'm in. I just hope IGA stays. I started off with his games and I've grown quite attached to the universe he and his team have built up. No one's for sure yet if he's gone though.
How is it that IGAs team can make games like Dracula X Chronicles and Lament of Innocence, have his team redraw a fuck ton of sprites in OoE, and up until the end of 2008 make a game every year and still be seen as having budget and timeframe issues?
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How is it that IGAs team can make games like Dracula X Chronicles and Lament of Innocence, have his team redraw a fuck ton of sprites in OoE, and up until the end of 2008 make a game every year and still be seen as having budget and timeframe issues?
and up until the end of 2008 make a game every year and still be seen as having budget and timeframe issues?
make a game every year
Seriously? A game once a year? That sounds like a timeframe issue to me.
IGA and co. literally have budget and timeframe issues. The proof? Look at every 2D CV game they've made. They're littered with (as you say) a fuck ton of recycled sprites. Everywhere. With a proper budget and a longer time frame, they can go all out and remake all of these things. You can call them lazy for not doing it anyway, but you gotta remember that they make sprites for a living, not just for fun and for no-cost projects like most of us here do. So the way I see it? They make the new stuff first, and if it's possible with what budget and time they have, they remake the old stuff (like Axe Armor for example. He's different in almost every game).
HD probably had a much smaller budget and timeframe, considering it came out not long after it was announced (as far as I see, anyway), and considering it was a download title, they have less space to take as well as less money to use.
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Seriously? A game once a year? That sounds like a timeframe issue to me.
IGA and co. literally have budget and timeframe issues. The proof? Look at every 2D CV game they've made. They're littered with (as you say) a fuck ton of recycled sprites. Everywhere. With a proper budget and a longer time frame, they can go all out and remake all of these things. You can call them lazy for not doing it anyway, but you gotta remember that they make sprites for a living, not just for fun and for no-cost projects like most of us here do. So the way I see it? They make the new stuff first, and if it's possible with what budget and time they have, they remake the old stuff (like Axe Armor for example. He's different in almost every game).
HD probably had a much smaller budget and timeframe, considering it came out not long after it was announced (as far as I see, anyway), and considering it was a download title, they have less space to take as well as less money to use.
I highly, highly doubt that Konami was breathing down IGAs neck forcing him to complete a new Castlevania title for the DS every year, with games for the PS2, PSP and Wii in between. This isn't Sonic. None of the games hes released have felt incomplete, feel like they're missing something or sprites aside, feel rushed.
I still want to know how the sprite budget argument explains the transition from HoD to AoS, and OoE. IGA himself even said that the Castlevania DS titles have a higher budget than most DS games out there. Even if it was a budget issue, can you explain the same system being used over and over for the handheld titles? His team is lazy about them, period. Thats why its frustrating because you look at games like Dracula X Chronicles, Lament of Innocence and to a point OoE and you know his team is capable of so much more than having Peewee Herman and his anime girlfriend go through haunted carnivals with sprites from 1994.
Of course HD had a smaller budget, thats not even worth mentioning.
I love the guy, hes made some of my favorite games ever but some of the excuses for his mistakes are ridiculous.
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I highly, highly doubt that Konami was breathing down IGAs neck forcing him to complete a new Castlevania title for the DS every year, with games for the PS2, PSP and Wii in between. This isn't Sonic. None of the games hes released have felt incomplete, feel like they're missing something or sprites aside, feel rushed.
I still want to know how the sprite budget argument explains the transition from HoD to AoS, and OoE. IGA himself even said that the Castlevania DS titles have a higher budget than most DS games out there. Even if it was a budget issue, can you explain the same system being used over and over for the handheld titles? His team is lazy about them, period. Thats why its frustrating because you look at games like Dracula X Chronicles, Lament of Innocence and to a point OoE and you know his team is capable of so much more than having Peewee Herman and his anime girlfriend go through haunted carnivals with sprites from 1994.
Of course HD had a smaller budget, thats not even worth mentioning.
I love the guy, hes made some of my favorite games ever but some of the excuses for his mistakes are ridiculous.
Well, can't argue with you there. But wasn't RoB released in 1992, or am I wrong?
EDIT: Never mind. It was '93. We were both wrong.
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Any plans on getting over the "Forget what you think you know about Castlevania" comment that was obviously made in regards to Lords of Shadow not being a part of the main series?
Of all the things to latch onto and be offended about..
Dave Cox used his talking points to make a sale, and so shall I.
Seriously, the constant shit slinging towards Lords of Shadow and David Cox (admittedly sometimes he does need to keep his mouth shut) is getting old.
Then you're really not going to like this...
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[img]...
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Nah... I'll save it for later. ;D
I wonder though... Did you even bother reading the last 3 pages? There's a higher calling here, I don't want this topic derailed by yet another LoS debate --so you can keep it.
How is it that IGAs team can make games like Dracula X Chronicles and Lament of Innocence, have his team redraw a fuck ton of sprites in OoE, and up until the end of 2008 make a game every year and still be seen as having budget and timeframe issues?
Well you passed yourself off as an insider the last time we talked, so maybe you have more information than I do. Lament certainly appeared to be a fair shake for IGA, in a lot of ways... But there's no way you're gonna convince anyone here that he had the same kind of financing or the experienced professionals that Kojima enjoyed while developing of Metal Gear Solid 2 just a couple years earlier. Also releasing the GBA and DS games back to back to back gets into the quantity vs quality cookie-cutter paradigm discussed earlier in this thread. At least the code was good enough to recycle and keep selling, but that's hardly a sign of any serious investment on Konami's part.
The serious investment didn't come until someone at Konami decided to let Mercury Steam do the job. What's shocking to me is how callously they snubbed IGA and his team --their own people-- who obviously loved working on the series.
I highly, highly doubt that Konami was breathing down IGAs neck forcing him to complete a new Castlevania title for the DS every year, with games for the PS2, PSP and Wii in between. This isn't Sonic. None of the games hes released have felt incomplete, feel like they're missing something or sprites aside, feel rushed.
I still want to know how the sprite budget argument explains the transition from HoD to AoS, and OoE. IGA himself even said that the Castlevania DS titles have a higher budget than most DS games out there. Even if it was a budget issue, can you explain the same system being used over and over for the handheld titles? His team is lazy about them, period. Thats why its frustrating because you look at games like Dracula X Chronicles, Lament of Innocence and to a point OoE and you know his team is capable of so much more than having Peewee Herman and his anime girlfriend go through haunted carnivals with sprites from 1994.
Of course HD had a smaller budget, thats not even worth mentioning.
I love the guy, hes made some of my favorite games ever but some of the excuses for his mistakes are ridiculous.
The most obvious mistake I can think of was condemning 2D Castlevania to handhelds for the last 14 years --and something tells me that decision was made at a higher level and IGA had to live with it. Obviously more exciting things happened when Castlevania moved onto the much more powerful PSP --at least in part because it broke the cookie-cutter. It's a sad, sad thing that game never realized its full potential on a home console... :(
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Dave Cox used his talking points to make a sale, and so shall I.
Then you're really not going to like this...
....
[img]...
....
Nah... I'll save it for later. ;D
I wonder though... Did you even bother reading the last 3 pages? There's a higher calling here, I don't want this topic derailed by yet another LoS debate --so you can keep it.
Well you passed yourself off as an insider the last time we talked, so maybe you have more information than I do. Lament certainly appeared to be a fair shake for IGA, in a lot of ways... But there's no way you're gonna convince anyone here that he had the same kind of financing or the experienced professionals that Kojima enjoyed while developing of Metal Gear Solid 2 just a couple years earlier. Also releasing the GBA and DS games back to back to back gets into the quantity vs quality cookie-cutter paradigm discussed earlier in this thread. At least the code was good enough to recycle and keep selling, but that's hardly a sign of any serious investment on Konami's part.
The serious investment didn't come until someone at Konami decided to let Mercury Steam do the job. What's shocking to me is how callously they snubbed IGA and his team --their own people-- who obviously loved working on the series.
The most obvious mistake I can think of was condemning 2D Castlevania to handhelds for the last 14 years --and something tells me that decision was made at a higher level and IGA had to live with it. Obviously more exciting things happened when Castlevania moved onto the much more powerful PSP --at least in part because it broke the cookie-cutter. It's a sad, sad thing that game never realized its full potential on a home console... :(
I don't want to turn it into a LoS debate. I'm pretty much on board with you about Konami not giving a shit about the series. It goes beyond IGA. Can you remember any LoS promotion going on after the game was released, or even before?
No one is going to disagree with you on Kojima having a way larger budget than IGA. Kojima is Konami period, and has been for quite some time, as horrible as that is.
The only thing Konami did for Mercurysteam was letting them put Kojimas name on the cover. Lords of Shadow did not have that big of a budget that you're thinking of, nor did it have a huge team.
Konami snubbing IGA for Lords of Shadow is the only quality control that they've shown the series in quite a while. IGA essentially oversaturated the series to the point where the general public didn't care anymore. Konami is a business. IGA was losing them money by doing things his way. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but games like Curse of Darkness and Castlevania Judgment somehow making it past testing and even existing is proof enough to me that IGA has had free reign on the series and Konami just didn't give a shit until someone else stepped in and said Hey, let me give it a try.
But now, its back to them not caring.
Good luck with this, hope something comes of it.
p.s. puzzled by the insider comment, wat?
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Hmm so according to you Castlevania is dead. I don't agree. The 2D games are good, and they could have been better if IGA's team had enough time and budget to develop their games. I think it's worth it to try to save the franchise.I don't know about you, but I'm sure a lot of people agree with me.Plus I didn't like Konami's attitude towards the fanbase. May I remind you that they completely ignored the 25th anniversary, or at least that's how i see it because what they gave us isn't exactly what you expect for an anniversary.
I meant their current game line up, actually. The recent 2D games were fun (can't comment on HD), and LoS, while flawed, had a lot of worthwhile ideas.
Most of Konami's other stuff right now looks pretty bad though, and it's made even more sad when some of the most appealing titles are collections of old games.
(Except NeverDead. I'm looking forward to that.)
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At least they haven't pulled a "Legends 3" on us. But they really are slacking on CV these days.
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At least they haven't pulled a "Legends 3" on us. But they really are slacking on CV these days.
This is true. LoS might not have been the perfect 3D Castlevania (and really, what is?), but MS was clearly passionate about the game.
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At least they haven't pulled a "Legends 3" on us. But they really are slacking on CV these days.
For Konami to pull a "Legends 3", they'd have to, at least, ANNOUNCE a new CV game. Of course, no way in hell would Konami ask for the amount of fan input Capcom was asking for MML3. No way in HELL!
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I "liked" the FB page and I could see this possibly going somewhere if Konami grows a pair of balls and decides not to let CV rot. But Konami has gone from a market leader to a follower over the years. It's hard to believe that this is the same company that came up with some of the IPs they're known for.
That said, if the series is going to continue, it's going to have to be in 3d. The general consensus is that 2d is retro and that's why IGA's games were confined to handhelds. Great as 2d is, there's no way Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft will allow a purely 2d game to hit their precious consoles no matter how beautiful it is. It's been said a million times but if they could somehow marry LoI and CV64, we'd have a perfect 3d CV game, but until that happens, there will be arguments and cries of "that's not Castlevania" while Konami throws everything they have against the wall to see what sticks. The series has lost its sense of direction since Judgment. It seems like Konami itself doesn't know where to take it, and while I'd love to see more games, I'd almost rather see them make a final game and let the series go rather than aimlessly make game after game that doesn't seem to have any thought behind it.
I'd almost rather have some of the talented members of the community do remakes of the games because at least that way we'd know they're done out of love and not obligation.
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That said, if the series is going to continue, it's going to have to be in 3d. The general consensus is that 2d is retro and that's why IGA's games were confined to handhelds. Great as 2d is, there's no way Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft will allow a purely 2d game to hit their precious consoles no matter how beautiful it is.
I take it you've never heard of Dragon's Crown. Or Muramasa for that matter. The former is for both PS3 and Vita and the latter was for Wii.
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I take it you've never heard of Dragon's Crown. Or Muramasa for that matter. The former is for both PS3 and Vita and the latter was for Wii
Rayman Origins, Kirby: Mass attack, Mario & Luigi: Partners in time, Mario & Luigi: Bowsers inside story, Toki Remix, Elysian Tail, Monster Tale, Skullgirls, Magical drop V, A boy & his blob, Hard Corp Uprising, Batman the Brave & the Bold: the videgame, Bloodrayne Betrayal & Dust an elysian Tail are a few more modern 2D games. Also the ESRB recently rated a Alien video game for DS that is a side scrolling shooter developed by Wayforward.
But who am I kidding 2D video games are just to old a concept to be marketable :rollseyes:
...Konami is just too damn lazy to put the appropriate amount of effort into a great 2D game that's all!!!
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Forget it guys. Castlevania is fucked.
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Forget it guys. Castlevania is fucked.
Welp, that's discouraging. Didn't think I could get in a worse mood after Borders announced it's liquidation.
On the other hand:
"The only way evil can triumph is for good men to do nothing."
So it's well worth the effort. I just liked the page. Best of luck guys, and thank you Cecil for being our whistleblower. :)
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"The only way evil can triumph is for good men to do nothing."
People tend to forget the FULL quote:
"The only way evil can triump is for good men to do nothing, unless we are talking about corporate producers and suits, which crush good men's hopes despite effort!"
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well, the way I'm seeing it Konami hasn't ruined anything like Square Enix an Capcom, but their focus is way off...
We need to reach out to konami but not hurt em....
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People tends to forget that LoS wasn't a Castlevania at the start; Konami thought: we need to reboot the series (because that's what everyone else is doing; and it seems to sell) and then found out about mercury steam.... It's not only Konami; it's also Capcom and other japanese companies to start to produce some of the their franchise with external studios. ( Look at the new DMC.. it scares the hell out of me.. ). That's basically what's happening since the "recession" of 2009.
if you look at the sales worldwide... LoS sells maaaany times more than any other episodes from the series; ever. I think it reached the million copies. That's probably due to the marketing. So for Konami, doing the reboot was the right decision, it worked!
Iga is just a employee... and the business side always had the control. That's just the way the game industry is since 2000 basically... Mostly big corporations. Then you got the random indie studio making huge sells on phones or pc because it's cheap to publish. (yeah.. consoles devkit... are stupidely expensive, 3ds devkit is like 3000$ and you need to be approved first by Nintendo).
Anyway. Point is: it was cheaper to develop on handled, then due to technical limitation at the time they probably couldnt put as much content they could.
Konami thinks 2d is dead... because it's still regarded by pretty much every customer as less cool than 3D... I mean it's just the way of progress. People would laugh if a game with the graphism of the PSX or even SNES was released as a boxed game "new franchise" for 60$. People would say "fuck you whatever developper!"
Most of the HD 2D titles announced or released recently... are only DL content... and don't get as much attention anyway.
2D is cheaper to produce so small studios who want to come out tends to use it if they have talented guys on their team. ( it's easier to make pretty 2d than 3d, thank you 500y of painting history, while being super easy to code )...
then console manufacturers dont want to see their HighTech cutting edge of the death 3D of hell machines to be used for 2D for a new franchise sold on box. So "ok you can release it but only as Downloadable Title". Because a price of the game sold on box; goes back to the manufacturer ( that's how they get back their investements on the console on long terms after the actual console sales decrease and console prices drops)
Finally... I'm probably sure.. that the number of hardcore fans of CV are probably less a lot less than the number of people happy or who simply doesn't care with the current state of castlevania. That can be said of any "extremist" group compared to a moderated group... In the end konami will look at the numbers and say " shall we care about 100000 (if we can even reach that number) people that like the series that way; or about 900000 people who don't complain and still buy it ?"
About Nintendo... that's just the way nintendo is... they've never cared about public opinion... Else the wii and gamecube would have had a lot more interesting games....Hardcore gamers are a minority compared to the "casual" ones...
They said they're going to change thing with the Wii-U... but they said the same thing when the gamecube came out...
So I salute the effort and I'm gonna like the page... but I fear it will probably be all for nothing.
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About Nintendo... that's just the way nintendo is... they've never cared about public opinion... Else the wii and gamecube would have had a lot more interesting games....Hardcore gamers are a minority compared to the "casual" ones...
They said they're going to change thing with the Wii-U... but they said the same thing when the gamecube came out...
Why put nintendo into this?, they are still a great company when it comes to their games. the 3D mario games are amazing , and we also have a brand new 2d main series with NSMB which is very good, the Zelda games are all incredible. Metroid prime and Donkey Kong country returns are simply amazing. Well, Metroid Other M wasn't a good move but is only one game and that kinda stuff always happens
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People tends to forget that LoS wasn't a Castlevania at the start
Yes it was.
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Uh oh. The eternal debate. "Cox said Lords of Shadow was meant to be Castlevania from the start!" or "Konami pulled that out of their ass and retroactively made LoS a Castlevania game!"
I personally believe the latter. I believe they're full of crap.
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The main evidence that it was a Castlevania seems to be all the castle shit in the promo art and webpage combined with how Simon-ish Gabriel looked in the first teaser trailer.
I think some of the content in game went pretty off-road for Castlevania, which might lead people to believe otherwise, so who knows.
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People tend to forget the FULL quote:
"The only way evil can triump is for good men to do nothing, unless we are talking about corporate producers and suits, which crush good men's hopes despite effort!"
...Well. Damn.
Okay, so who's right here? I've read everything from "Cox wanted to make an accessible Castlevania from the beginning and Kojima opened doors for him" to "the Castlevania name was excluded from the trailer so it was made just days before E3" to "MS was making a new IP for Konami and it was going poorly so they had Kojima help them and all was roses" to "IF IT HAS THE NAME IT'S PART OF THE FRANCHISE, IF YOU LIKE IGA'S GAMES YOU'RE A NARROW-MINDED FOOL; PROBLEM, GAMER?" I've heard equal amounts of good factoids and senseless hyperbole from both sides. I still honestly can't figure out how that thing even started out, as a CV or a new IP. And apparently nobody else can either.
This is my opinion: feel free to agree, disagree, or hunt me down: I personally think it's CV in name alone, about as CV as I am when I wear my shirt with the CV title screen on it. It's a hodgepodge of hack 'n' slash games that have been done to death already, which isn't really much better than a metroidvania in terms of rehashing a tired formula, and a desperate attempt to reconnect with old fans. "Ooh! A Swiss Army cross! How'd this get here? Aww hell, Gandolfi made it. Carmilla, Cornell, Brauner! These guys juuuuuuust happen to have the names of canon characters! What now? Aww hell, this game isn't canon, it's a reboot, so it doesn't matter!"
Which is also a load of rubbish. The "non-canon" thing means nothing from a commercial perspective. The very fact that such a derivative game exists, and the fact that a sequel is in development, is enough to gauge the series' direction from here, and that is toward the mainstream. The series is being stripped of its essence. Your senses must be far keener than mine, for I don't see a semblance to CV at all beyond the name.
One thing I did appreciate about LoS was the inclusion of Pan, an old god, as a benevolent and loving entity. As a pagan I really appreciated the nod to nature and the beauty and magical atmospheres of the landscapes. There is deep religious symbolism in the storyline. The problem is that people are acting as if religious allusions in CV didn't exist before LoS. Order of Ecclesia was chock full of it. I played OoE at a time I was going through a ton of personal problems with religion and it actually helped me heal from a few of them. Where was the outcry when Rondo of Blood and SotN used crucifixes in the Item Crashes? (I don't know if there was any at the time; I will readily admit this.) Some of the classicvanias were censored for crosses and nudity as per Nintendo's censorship policy, but that's about as big of an "outcry" the game's ever gotten and that was commonplace then. What about the Vampire Cross used as the series logo in more recent years? The bloody Virgin Mary in Portrait of Ruin (which scared the living shit out of me when I first saw it)? Did it really take changing the villain from Dracula to Satan for people to go on about the "heavy religion?" All sorts of theologies and mythologies are wells of inspiration from which Castlevania has drawn.
Also, Trebor777, I agree with you on many instances; however, I too will point out that Nintendo at least cares about its Zelda fans to treat them with orchestras and a pretty BA piece of artwork.
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Dave Cox interview in Aug 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4YxIYIkJM#)
"It's a new brand, IP from Konami. We've had a lot of criticism recently for just rehashing old sequels or bringing out games which are already known brands so we felt we wanted to do something new and original"
LOL
I guess their own personal opinion is about all anyone can confidently say on the matter.
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It was a castlevania from the start, then it becamea new IP, then it became another CV.
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Honestly, no one outside of Konami/Mercurysteam knows what went down during development of LOS so everything is just pure speculation.
This whole entire situation could have been avoided if they had just shown this from the start instead of the Lords of Shadow teaser:
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow Concept Footage feat. Simon Belmont (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JffZzTar-u0#ws)
and stuck with it's original premise as a remake of Castlevania 1.
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I could see that they would deliberately lie to keep things a secret I guess.
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Some people don't take kindly to being lied too weather it's to keep a secret or not, they could have just said absolutly nothing and everyone would have been cool with it. It's better to be told nothing than be told that "This game will be a new IP because Konami is tired of milking old series" then one year later saying "It was a Castlevania game all along guys, we have no proof but take our word for it."
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I don't trust Cox as far as I could throw him. The best thing he could bring to Konami is a restraining order. He's fishier than the Kalidus Channel.
What perplexes me is the supposed need to keep the "Castlevania" title a secret because of worries about upstaging Judgment. Yup, now I'm bringing the J-word into this...but it's always confused me. Judgment was met with reactions that were confused at best upon its announcement. Konami knew all too well what a departure it would be. Why did they put their money on Judgment as the big attraction, which flopped miserably in the press, in favor of the more mainstream LoS? Surely it would be more satisfying to reveal a high fantasy adventure rather than an anime-style fighting game. The whole thing just reeks of fish.
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In this case, it's kinda like the whole "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" type deal. Many different sources say different things, and really, what you, personally, believe is solely based on whom you choose to believe, as both sides are credible, yet both also have done some shady things to make you question their validity. At the end, it might just be easier to do the Eeny-Meeny-Miny-Moe or some other childhood rhyme to choose which one you follow.
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Well, remember that Konami also limited IGA to not using any belmonts as the protagonists for his Sympnony of the Night, in order not to upstage Castlevania 64, which was what they were pushing as their big release. IGA's game was for all intents and purposes, just a side game.
And we see what happened there. Symphony went on to be the biggest hit ever, and 64 was upstaged and outclassed anyway.
these companies work in mysterious derpy ways. Such as Capcom canceling the Legends 3 project. I guess they thought Judgement would be better received because A. its still of the main universe, B. includes a whole slew of characters, and C. has IGA on it. And D, it was their in house production.
LoS on the other hand, was
A. A bold new reboot, with amazing graphics, for a better system, and was made by an outside team with possibly a bigger budget.
They might have felt that the LoS character design and style would upstage the Deathnote reject art. They might also have possibly not wanted the in house team's products to be upstaged by the obviously better one.
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Rayman Origins, Toki Remix, Elysian Tail, Monster Tale, Skullgirls, Magical drop V, A boy & his blob, Hard Corp Uprising, Batman the Brave & the Bold: the videgame, Bloodrayne Betrayal & Dust an elysian Tail are a few more modern 2D games. Also the ESRB recently rated a Alien video game for DS that is a side scrolling shooter developed by Wayforward.
But who am I kidding 2D video games are just to old a concept to be marketable :rollseyes:
...Konami is just too damn lazy to put the appropriate amount of effort into a great 2D game that's all!!!
I haven't heard of any of those or the ones Charlotte mentioned (although, now that I think of it, I DO remember hearing a little about Muramasa) but I don't really keep up on games as much as I used to these days. Still, I'd bet most if not all of those games are at least 2.5D, right?
Your average CoD-playing gamer doesn't want to see 2d games on his ultraPS360SuperSystem. I'd be surprised if any of the above mentioned games were popular outside of hardcore gamers who can recognize their quality (assuming it's there.)
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Nintendo's the way they are because they're not conforming to the new-age of gaming. I believe that HD compatibility was not included with the Wii simply for how much it would cost when purchased in stores. Nintendo, in my opinion, is the best first-party company of the three. Sony makes great systems, but they're kinda pricey. They also have about 1 or 2 first-party games that are worth playing. Microsoft makes great systems at a reasonable price, but their first-party games... blow ass. Nintendo's got very worthwhile consoles (seriously, why did so many people think the Wii controllers were annoying to use?), and their first-party games are simply great (though the weird Zelda games that star Toon Link are friggin out of control).
And in an ontopic note, my GameFAQs thread got two people to join in about six days. Dunno if that's good or bad, considering the timeframe.
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I'd bet most if not all of those games are at least 2.5D, right?
quite the opposte actually
the closest thing to a 2.5D game on that list is Hard Corp Uprising which combines 2D Sprites with 3D backgrounds
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Microsoft makes great systems at a reasonable price, but their first-party games... blow ass.
Don't forget about their infamous RRD (Red Ring of Death). Because they were cheap in making their first 360 consoles (which I think was deliberate so they could eek more money off of us for the repair jobs :P ).
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Don't forget about their infamous RRD (Red Ring of Death). Because they were cheap in making their first 360 consoles (which I think was deliberate so they could eek more money off of us for the repair jobs :P ).
All their Xbox 360s still do it though. The new Xbox 360 Slim or whatever, it still gets them, even though they said otherwise. The reason it doesn't get them is cuz they recolored the RRoD to green, so you don't even notice it. >.>
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We'll I have had a Xbox360 Arcade for going on 3 years now and Have never had the Red Ring of death.
From what I have heard the newer Xbox 360 systems do not even get them so could you please post a link confirming your allegations?
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We'll I have had a Xbox360 Arcade for going on 3 years now and Have never had the Red Ring of death.
From what I have heard the newer Xbox 360 systems do not even get them so could you please post a link confirming your allegations?
On terms of your first statement:
Yeah, Xboxs last for quite a decent timelength.
On terms of your second statement:
I'm only speaking what I've heard there.
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On terms of your first statement:
Yeah, Xboxs last for quite a decent timelength.
On terms of your second statement:
I'm only speaking what I've heard there.
So you have no proof that ALL the xbox 360's still have the red ring of death?
Then why say it like its a fact?
The fact is that me and my friends all have either a Xbox360 arcade or a new model Xbox 360 and have never had the Red Ring of Death which really does disprove your statement that ALL the xbox360's still have it.
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So you have no proof that ALL the xbox 360's still have the red ring of death?
Then why say it like its a fact?
The fact is that me and my friends all have either a Xbox360 arcade or a new model Xbox 360 and have never had the Red Ring of Death which really does disprove your statement that ALL the xbox360's still have it.
I haven't yet purchased one of the newer models (obviously I can't afford it), so once I do, and if I get it, I'll let you know. I say it like fact because that's the way I talk. You should know that by now.
The arcade and elites though, do indeed get it, however. The timeframe for it, of course, is very random. My elite just got it recently, and now I'm stuck without X360 games. >.>
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We'll you really should not say things as fact since it can cause problems such as this one.
When someone tries to pass something off as fact I tend to call them out on it because thats just the way I am. ;D
And where was it confirmed that the Arcade version still gets the Red Ring of Death?
Also where was it officially confirmed that there is a timeframe to it?
Can you post a link to your sources?
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We'll you really should not say things as fact since it can cause problems such as this one.
When someone tries to pass something off as fact I tend to call them out on it because thats just the way I am. ;D
And where was it confirmed that the Arcade version still gets the Red Ring of Death?
Also where was it officially confirmed that there is a timeframe to it?
Can you post a link to your sources?
Wait, by Arcade, are we referring to the same thing?
There is no confirmed timeframe to it. That's why it's considered random. Cuz it happens randomly to people. One of my friends, it happened to him within the first month. Me, I had my 360 for about nine months before it finally crapped out.
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Actually it wasn't all of them that had the problem early on either. 3/4 of them I seem to recall got the red ring problem, and Microsoft would send those people new Xbox's for free. I was lucky. I have an early model, and mine has lasted 4 years so far. Still going strong. 8)
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my classic 360 red-ringed once several years ago when it was still prevalent (well, a lil after). that whole fiasco made a huge impact on Microsoft's reputation imo
ps3 also has the "yellow light of death," anyone ever experience that?
#threadhijacking
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I've experienced the full bodied love of both the 360's RRoD and the PS3's YLoD. I so miss the days of the SNES...when you could literally hurl your console at the wall in anger and it STILL wouldn't kick the bucket.
As for the whole "poke Konami with messages until they make the Vania that we all want" idea....totally DOA. For one thing, I...like many long time Vania fans, have my own wish list when it comes to things I'd like to see Konami do with this franchise, and only one of them jives with this "Operation Akumajo's" mission statement. The reason why game companies tend to ignore the hardcore minority in the fanbase is for this very reason...we can't even agree on a list of demands. I don't mind the LoS saga continuing, and I don't necessarily want IGA reinstated (was he ever un-instated?) on an ignorant whim. The man did some good things for the franchise, no doubt, but I don't have any information regarding the circumstances of his departure from it or what kind of constraints he worked under vs his own incapabilities. How can I, or anyone else, arbitrarily demand he be brought back and made to produce a particular CV title? How do we even know that he WANTS to make CV games anymore???
And while I'd like to see the Demon Castle Wars game get made, I don't want it if it's going to be another effin' handheld title or if it's going to be a template clone of SotN, AoS, PoR, or OoE. If it's not going to be fresh, high powered, and drastically better than the 2D titles Konami has been shoveling out the last few years...then I'm not interested. Maybe if a talented 3rd party dev team was doing it I'd change my mind. But truthfully, I don't understand everyone's obsession with getting this game made. There's little chance it would measure up to any of our expectations. JMO. It would just be another 2D Belmont-treks-to-the-the-Dark-Spire-to-kill-Dracula title. The only thing it would have going for it would be the story (ie: cutscenes). IMO the Demon Castle Wars game would present alot more promise as a 3D title...but I know I'm probably in the minority here in thinking that.
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Nintendo's the way they are because they're not conforming to the new-age of gaming. I believe that HD compatibility was not included with the Wii simply for how much it would cost when purchased in stores. Nintendo, in my opinion, is the best first-party company of the three. Sony makes great systems, but they're kinda pricey. They also have about 1 or 2 first-party games that are worth playing. Microsoft makes great systems at a reasonable price, but their first-party games... blow ass. Nintendo's got very worthwhile consoles (seriously, why did so many people think the Wii controllers were annoying to use?), and their first-party games are simply great (though the weird Zelda games that star Toon Link are friggin out of control).
And in an ontopic note, my GameFAQs thread got two people to join in about six days. Dunno if that's good or bad, considering the timeframe.
Nintendo said that the Wii was HD Capable, but due to Hd not being the big thing at the time. and personally, the games on the wii are better than the Xbox 360 (since I do my FPSing on PC) after playing around on that Dolphin emulator I knew that the wii had HD made games, but were fosung on the motion controlls and such within the wii rather than making it pretty. Now that the Wii U is coming not only we get HD, we get 1080p which totally poops on that upscaled 720p 360 has. (I wont rag on Ps3, at least you get free online that is better than the 360's)
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Nintendo said that the Wii was HD Capable, but due to Hd not being the big thing at the time. and personally, the games on the wii are better than the Xbox 360 (since I do my FPSing on PC) after playing around on that Dolphin emulator I knew that the wii had HD made games, but were fosung on the motion controlls and such within the wii rather than making it pretty. Now that the Wii U is coming not only we get HD, we get 1080p which totally poops on that upscaled 720p 360 has. (I wont rag on Ps3, at least you get free online that is better than the 360's)
Yeah, I knew HD was totally possible with Wii. And hell, I'm having more fun with that than any other console right now. I got Judgment (yes, it's FUN, deal with it!), RE: The Darkside Chronicles, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Mario Kart Wii., Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Other M, and a megaton of other games. All I really played on my 360 was Harmony of Despair, which does get boring if you play it for long periods of time (well, I didn't have online play, so w/e).
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Just finished Castlevania's 25th Anniversary logo. Check out the sig. ;)
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The "Castlevania" part is so... shiny. Me likes.
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The "Castlevania" part is so... shiny. Me likes.
25th is the silver anniversary --it seemed appropriate. I was thinking about adding artwork or sprites, but the original logo had such a memorable style... And the classic film borders from the NES games' title screens... Still can't take my eyes off it!!! LOL
;D
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hey, I got Judgement too, Its really fun, my only thumbs down is the character designs (obvious reasons).
Looking on the brighter side, at least Konami hasn't went as low as Capcom, though they are very lazy lately.
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25th is the silver anniversary --it seemed appropriate. I was thinking about adding artwork or sprites, but the original logo had such a memorable style... And the classic film borders from the NES games' title screens... Still can't take my eyes off it!!! LOL
;D
I just have this thing for shiny objects (one reason I like PS3 more than X360, believe it or not). :)
hey, I got Judgement too, Its really fun, my only thumbs down is the character designs (obvious reasons).
Looking on the brighter side, at least Konami hasn't went as low as Capcom, though they are very lazy lately.
ULTIMATE CASTLEVANIA JUDGMENT HYPER AWESOME AMAZING DEATH RAINBOW EDITION
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I understand you're angry at Konami for neglecting CV, but calling them deadbeats -- even if they are -- is probably not the best way to get them to be receptive to your message. That is, if you intend for your message to reach them and for important people in the company to read what you have to say about what you desire for future CV games.
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I understand you're angry at Konami for neglecting CV, but calling them deadbeats -- even if they are -- is probably not the best way to get them to be receptive to your message. That is, if you intend for your message to reach them and for important people in the company to read what you have to say about what you desire for future CV games.
A few people have raised concerns about the message. There's a balance between being aggressive and being abrasive. Retooling is underway.
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FIXED!
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I miss that logo... :'(
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It's still abrasive. You are attempting to get someone to do something for you. That still isn't the attitude for asking.
They have absolutely NO obligation of any kind to grant your request. Treating them with even the slightest hint of them being some sort of enemy will get you nowhere. Even without saying a word, they will look at that and ultimately ignore the entire group.
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It's still abrasive. You are attempting to get someone to do something for you. That still isn't the attitude for asking.
They have absolutely NO obligation of any kind to grant your request. Treating them with even the slightest hint of them being some sort of enemy will get you nowhere. Even without saying a word, they will look at that and ultimately ignore the entire group.
At this point the propaganda is designed to attract and envigorate the fanbase --nothing more, nothing less. Taking our demands to Konami is the ultimate goal, but we'll need an outpouring of passion in vast numbers just to get their attention. And once we have their attention, everyone needs to apply the pressure. I'm rather impressed by this backlash Capcom is getting from cancelling Megaman Legends 3. These Megaman fans are even more fired up than Operation Rainfall. Trust me, I'm taking notes...
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I think you need to find some ways to collaborate with like-minded people in order to help round out your campaign. There's certain approaches you need to take, but you can maximize coverage by approaching them from all angles.
Just a thought.
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I agree with Sindra on this. We will need plenty of collaboration to really send home the message.
Nintendo already caved in and registered The Last Story for copyright in the us, so we do have an impact on what decisions are made withing the companies that make our games.
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I think you need to find some ways to collaborate with like-minded people in order to help round out your campaign. There's certain approaches you need to take, but you can maximize coverage by approaching them from all angles.
Just a thought.
Are you suggesting a collaborative effort with Operation Rainfall or the Legends 3 crowd?
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At this point the propaganda is designed to attract and envigorate the fanbase --nothing more, nothing less.
That image in your signature is the face of your movement. It is what people see first. Don't think for a second that Konami wont see it as well.
It's a bad move.
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That image in your signature is the face of your movement. It is what people see first. Don't think for a second that Konami wont see it as well.
It's a bad move.
Well Cox himself has been on this forum before, so it wouldn't surprise me to know we're being watched. Quite frankly, I'm more concerned that about a movement that's so polite, and so soft-spoken, that it's not taken seriously by anyone --Konami or the fans. I understand the deadbeat comment was over the top, so I toned it down because the argument made sense. But please tell me, what's so offensive about "challenging" Konami? Isn't that what we want? To challenge Konami to support Castlevania, quality control, the fans --or maybe just to give a damn? Is this really too bold a message?
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Nintendo said that the Wii was HD Capable, but due to Hd not being the big thing at the time. and personally, the games on the wii are better than the Xbox 360 (since I do my FPSing on PC) after playing around on that Dolphin emulator I knew that the wii had HD made games, but were fosung on the motion controlls and such within the wii rather than making it pretty. Now that the Wii U is coming not only we get HD, we get 1080p which totally poops on that upscaled 720p 360 has. (I wont rag on Ps3, at least you get free online that is better than the 360's)
So the Wii is capable of 1080p, but Nintendo thought it wasn't a priority...so they DUMBED DOWN the resolution??? I don't know man, that's not the kind of thing I'd brag about if I were trying to make a case for the Wii. Hell, that's just stupid if it's actually true.
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Well Cox himself has been on this forum before
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...oh. crap.
Still headed to the Castlevania theater event in PA tomorrow. Maybe I can get the word out there about the cause somehow?
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Are you suggesting a collaborative effort with Operation Rainfall or the Legends 3 crowd?
You certainly could do that, yeah. The only problem with trying to hook up with those movements is that they're fans of their own respective series and had a passion for them, just as we do for our franchise. They may not be on board with alot of the things Castlevania fans like us have gravitated towards wanting done. If you want that same passion, you have to stick with like-minded people and groups. Drum up interest within our community first before moving on to the wider VG crowd to gain spotlight.
And to address what Uzo was getting at, there's a difference in general reaction to having an persistent campaign as opposed to an aggressive campaign. What do you think is going to gain you more consideration from fans and the industry - threatening your victim from afar with force if they do not bend to your demand, or getting right up close to your victim's face and poking it relentlessly until it pays attention?
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Yes, exactly, Sindra.
cecil-kain; You are attempting a negotiation, not a war campaign.
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Are you suggesting a collaborative effort with Operation Rainfall or the Legends 3 crowd?
As Sindra suggested, that's not something I suggest doing right away. However it couldn't hurt to make them aware of this movement. Operation Rainfall and the 100,000 Gamers for MML3 have already made comments on their respective Facebook pages, so I'd say there's definitely mutual respect there. Plus being similar movements there's always a sense of camaraderie.
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You certainly could do that, yeah. The only problem with trying to hook up with those movements is that they're fans of their own respective series and had a passion for them, just as we do for our franchise. They may not be on board with alot of the things Castlevania fans like us have gravitated towards wanting done. If you want that same passion, you have to stick with like-minded people and groups. Drum up interest within our community first before moving on to the wider VG crowd to gain spotlight.
And to address what Uzo was getting at, there's a difference in general reaction to having an persistent campaign as opposed to an aggressive campaign. What do you think is going to gain you more consideration from fans and the industry - threatening your victim from afar with force if they do not bend to your demand, or getting right up close to your victim's face and poking it relentlessly until it pays attention?
Yes, exactly, Sindra.
cecil-kain; You are attempting a negotiation, not a war campaign.
I understand where you guys are coming from, and the cause is ultimately more important than my opinions. Just consider, we've barely been on the map a week --not even remotely ready to campaign with Emails, phone calls, or the social media... The negotiation is the ultimate goal, but a great deal of noise will need to be made in order for us to ever reach that point. Ever since I started this thread, there have been shadows of doubt and apathy, so I'm doing everything I can just to get our fanbase fired up. Observe how the backlash over Megaman Legends 3 is full of passion and energy. That's exactly what we're needing, both to grow our numbers and also to be taken seriously.
Is it really a Declaration of War to "challenge" Konami?
As Sindra suggested, that's not something I suggest doing right away. However it couldn't hurt to make them aware of this movement. Operation Rainfall and the 100,000 Gamers for MML3 have already made comments on their respective Facebook pages, so I'd say there's definitely mutual respect there. Plus being similar movements there's always a sense of camaraderie.
I've considered posting on Konami's official Castlevania Page, but I'm holding back for a couple strategic reasons.
First, Castlevania's Anniversary date hasn't officially arrived as of yet. Maybe there's a spirit of fair play on my part, but I'd like to give Konami every opportunity to announce something appropriate between now and then. Operation Akumajo's demands hinge upon the presumption that Konami won't deliver, but perhaps they have good a surprise awaiting us at Comic Con or the Tokyo Game Show that will spoil the whole movement.
Secondly, by the time Konami fails to celebrate the Anniversary, Operation Akumajo should hopefully have a significant number of members ready to descend on Konami all at once with a united front to present our demands... Rather pokingly like Sindra commented earlier. Shock and awe indeed... lol There I go thinking like a war general... lol
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I appreciate the constructive criticism. I know you guys are trying to help. If any of you would like to lead these efforts, please contact me privately. I'm just one guy and I don't wanna screw this up by letting my ego get in the way.