It will be a sad, sad day in the gaming world if Capcom goes under, guys.
I gotta hunch that the next top-secret CV game is already in development, probably for handheld (and it might be a "stand-alone" title, not a full-blown reboot like LoS was)
about Ghosts n Goblins, DMC, etc.. that's all Capcom's fault. They mismanaged their properties and are totally out of touch with their fans (have been for quite a while), which is why they're in such dire straits right now. Hopefully Konami isn't in the red like Capcom is (i don;t think so, they haven't given any indications that they're nigh-financial ruin like Capcom has publicly)
It will be a sad, sad day in the gaming world if Capcom goes under, guys.
Oh, hey, it's this topic again.
I think that it'll be a reboot. Or maybe a new game on the old series, but a 3D one... or maybe a new LoS, if LoS2 sells well, like hotcakes.
It will be a sad, sad day in the gaming world if Capcom goes under, guys.Damn, I certainly hope that doesn't happen. There are too many good franchises on the line.
You know there hasn't been a new 2D platformer on a console since SotN? Imagine a true spiritual successor to SotN (with full voice acting) on PS4/XBOX/PC. Aside from potentially being f**king amazing, it would fly off the shelves and Konami would regret ever doing business with Mercury Steam..(assuming they find a reputable developer to succeed them)
Unfortunately, we live in an era of people obsessed with Call of Duty and similar games.I've heard that Ghosts isn't selling as much as the previous games used to though, so there might be hope.
to be fair, we are talking about the company that released 2354,65406 editions of Street Fighter 2, so maybe exploiting their fans isn't that new to them.
For a Castlevania game to be sucessful on consoles, from the old series, they need to market it as the next SOTN. It does have a very large fanbase today, lots and lots of people have played it and by far it's the most popular game of the series.
That or going the LoS way.
Besides that, the games will be relegated to handhelds or online services (PSN/XBLA).
IGA was trying to recapture the "SoTN magic" for the better part of 10 years. SoTN is like a hit single, just one of those things that's good and it's difficult "remake" that if you will. LoS was a more calculated entry, so I think it would be easier for them to repeat that formula than Sotn's almost accidental status as a great game.Every single one of IGA's Metroidvanias captured the essential SoTN magic, each in a subtly different way than the next -- that's, after all, what made them so great. And yet we all continue to crave for the proud successor of the Symphony, that inevitable masterpiece we seem to be inching ever so close to, but that we never seem to reach. Here's the truth: the modern "SoTN 2.0" can't simply be a formula remake, no matter how skillfully executed it is; it needs to carry all of Symphony's magic... and more. We're still missing that quintessential spark of energy that will push us into Castlevania's next great era, that same essential force that ushered the series into the Metroidvania age.
Here's the truth: the modern "SoTN 2.0" can't simply be a formula remake, no matter how skillfully executed it is; it needs to carry all of Symphony's magic... and more. We're still missing that quintessential spark of energy that will push us into Castlevania's next great era, that same essential force that ushered the series into the Metroidvania age.
If they could find the "heart" of SotN, what made it so amazing, why we loved it, and why it was a hit -- all of it's magic -- then add more (which would hopefully be at least a tiny bit of an inevitability if they were really sitting down and thoroughly analyzing SotN) by giving us a new story, new characters, new items...whatever!
I just hope the "right time" happens while we're still alive.
My wish for the next Castlevania game is for it to be nothing like SOTN or LOS.Or classicavania too.
Every single one of IGA's Metroidvanias captured the essential SoTN magic, each in a subtly different way than the next -- that's, after all, what made them so great. And yet we all continue to crave for the proud successor of the Symphony, that inevitable masterpiece we seem to be inching ever so close to, but that we never seem to reach. Here's the truth: the modern "SoTN 2.0" can't simply be a formula remake, no matter how skillfully executed it is; it needs to carry all of Symphony's magic... and more. We're still missing that quintessential spark of energy that will push us into Castlevania's next great era, that same essential force that ushered the series into the Metroidvania age.
I disagree. To me, a lot of the subsequent Metroidvanias were like a band that has a hit, and they spend the next 10 years trying unsuccessfully to recreate that hit. Some attempts are better than others, but none of them measure up, and after awhile, it becomes apparent what they're trying to do. As much as I like several of the subsequent games, none of them are as good as SoTN was, maybe in part because, like X said, it was the first of its kind and benefit from being released on a console as opposed to a hand-held.
SoTN has that certain je ne sais quois. You could analyze it, but at the end of the day, there's something about it that defies analysis. If it were something possible to capture, we'd have had a sequel even better a long time ago.
For example, why the hell was Simon hanging from his foot by a rope in the Outer Wall?
I'm about to say something that is sure to get me a few negative votes on this post.
As much as I love SOTN, I would have much rather had a sequel to SCV4 than SOTN.
Let me clarify. I think a sequel developed by the same team that made SCV4, in the open world style of Simon's Quest, would have blown SOTN away. Just imagine a game with the mechanics, music, and graphical style of SCV4 in glorious 32 bit, with an open world adventure and character development. Just the thought of that sends a tickle down my spine.
You could tell that game was made with a lot of love. Which is something that I don't necessarily get from the subsequent games.
The Soul System trimmed the fat from all of Alucard's numerous, numerous, and sometimes pointless options. Spells, familiars, relics, sub-weapons, weapon abilities, and what have you all became different souls to collect, instead of filling up vast, various menus of different abilities and items where half would probably only be touched a once or twice.
B-But...the fat is what made SotN so delicious... :'(
It was also cool how they even went so far as to give the Familiars personalities. If Alucard sits in a chair for too long and falls asleep, the Fairy would take a rest on his shoulder, and when he wakes up, she falls off abruptly. Or putting the game into a CD player and hearing Alucard tell you that this is a "playstation disc." That game has so much style it's not even funny man. There's things about it that many people didn't discover for YEARS. That's what makes it legendary.Amen.
And you're lying if you've never went through each item & weapon just to read all the unique descriptions. I'll never get bored with Symphony.
I'm about to say something that is sure to get me a few negative votes on this post.
As much as I love SOTN, I would have much rather had a sequel to SCV4 than SOTN.
Let me clarify. I think a sequel developed by the same team that made SCV4, in the open world style of Simon's Quest, would have blown SOTN away. Just imagine a game with the mechanics, music, and graphical style of SCV4 in glorious 32 bit, with an open world adventure and character development. Just the thought of that sends a tickle down my spine.
I also think that it would have pointed Castlevania in a better direction for the long run that SOTN did.
Another issue, is that despite trying to recapture that magic, IGA didn't seem to realize, that the gameplay was good. Instead, he tried to push many different gimmicks, because thats how he designs. gimmick first, game and story after. Some gimmicks worked better than others, (the Soul system was basically just a fancy subweapon and ability equip system) but yeah. That's my 2 CentsWith that kind of logic, you'd have reason to call just about any gaming mechanic gimmicky. Incidentally, there's a point where every combat system in gaming can be reduced to a "fancy subweapon and ability equip system".
Another issue, is that despite trying to recapture that magic, IGA didn't seem to realize, that the gameplay was good. Instead, he tried to push many different gimmicks, because thats how he designs. gimmick first, game and story after. Some gimmicks worked better than others, (the Soul system was basically just a fancy subweapon and ability equip system) but yeah. That's my 2 Cents
I really hated that. For all my misgivings with Mercurysteam and LOS, I'm glad they were smart enough not to insert some similarly-fancy gimmick just to show off the 3DS' capabilities.MoF is commonly lauded as one of the best uses of 3D ever in any medium.
MoF is commonly lauded as one of the best uses of 3D ever in any medium.
What happened with the game is sad. They had the idea, the best idea, sadly execution didn't live up to it.
I really hated that. For all my misgivings with Mercurysteam and LOS, I'm glad they were smart enough not to insert some similarly-fancy gimmick just to show off the 3DS' capabilities.Not too sure about that. Movement was, after all, entirely locked to the circle pad. Frustrating as hell, it was.
Another reason why SOTN has never been surpassed (or even rivaled, though that's subjective) could stem from the music. Let's face it: the music was a big part of why we loved the game. Later games had a lot of great tunes but on the whole they just... couldn't truly live up to SOTN's. And that may have pulled down our general experience of every IGA-made game since.I don't think I agree. Music was a big part of why we loved SoTN, but it was also a big part of why we loved every single Castlevania game that came after it. And in that respect, SoTN's music had been equaled a long time ago.
Director
IGA
Assistant Director
IGA
Programmer
IGA
Music Composer
IGA
ENDING THEME
"True To Your Dreams"
Written by
IGA
Vocals
IGA
Special Thanks
IGA
And IGA!
DEVELOPED BY IGA
1986 2013 IGA ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Well, I was gonna say that I felt like CotM came pretty close...but if I'm reading my Google searches right, IGA didn't actually have anything to do with that one.
IMO, if they want to make a "Symphony of the 2.0", they just need to capture the atmosphere of the castle again. The problem is that atmosphere can be one of the most transient things in game design.
I didn't play Symphony of the Night when it first came out. I always had Nintendo consoles, so I got to AoS, DoS, and PoR before I ever had a chance to play Symphony of the Night on my PSP. I'm just going out of my way to say this because sometimes "atmosphere" is just another word for nostalgia, but Symphony of the Night really did have it in spades were its successors didn't.
A big part of it is the castle design. Aside from the lack of reused enemy sprites that the later games became notorious for, the castle itself is very unique from location to location. Very few rooms are copies of other rooms, or even similar to them, both layout-wise and art-wise. Backgrounds are very identifiable and most rooms have design elements or set pieces that make you say "Oh, I'm in THIS room". And with all the little details added in addition, it makes the castle seem very real, like you're actually exploring a building something built that creatures are living in and not a series of rooms divided up into sections (see "levels"). There were even whole sections you could miss and not even realize it. Now, obviously the other Metroidvania's weren't entirely copy paste, but their castle's weren't nearly as well thought out as Symphony's.
Adding onto that, the music drives the atmosphere way more than the other games. It is grandiose and dramatic at times, hopping and jazzy at others, and even soft and sad as well, but never really delves into the gameyness that the other Metroidvania's could. I think AoS might have been able to replicate this if it had better hardware, but the GBA just can't output that kind of sound. You can hear the compositional shortcuts Yamane had to take, and I don't know whether it was the hardware or just the influence of working on the GBA, but her compositional style totally changed from Symphony of the Night to Order of Ecclesia. IMO, the music became less atmospheric and more focused on itself. A Metroidvania that had a soundtrack like Lament of Innocence's would knock it out of the park.
Because really, mechanically, Symphony of the Night probably has been surpassed. The Soul System trimmed the fat from all of Alucard's numerous, numerous, and sometimes pointless options. Spells, familiars, relics, sub-weapons, weapon abilities, and what have you all became different souls to collect, instead of filling up vast, various menus of different abilities and items where half would probably only be touched a once or twice. Sure, there were great items like the shield rod, the spike armor, the capes, the muramasa, and others that had some real personality to them, but there was also a lot of clutter. Not to say future Metroidvania's didn't have their crap skills/items, but you could tell the thought process behind a lot of them was "Well, it has to have a soul. It can, uh, fire, er, another projectile?" Symphony of the Night sometimes just had item clutter. If anything Order of Ecclesia did a very good job of only giving you abilities that had a purpose, now we just need a game that brings the character that Symphony of the Night had back to the weapon and combat systems.
I agree that the atmosphere in SotN had a lot to do with it. The biggest difference between SotN and the metroidvanias that followed it was that the exploration felt "real". Exploring every nook and cranny was exciting cause it really felt like this huge gothic castle. In AoS/DoS/Hod etc I really felt I was just playing a video game. And as great as those games were in their own right, you could almost see the code running, and the sense of exploring was a bit lost.
Games like SotN and Super Metroid did a fantastic job making you feel like you were exploring places that noone - not even the developers - knew existed. Silly, I know. But the atmosphere made the environments more than just levels in a game. IMO.
In my opinion, we were weaned on SOTN's exploration to the point that it becomes second nature, that is why, in the later metroidvanias, things just seem "been there, done that." We already knew where the developers would most likely hide stuff without the need for a walkthrough.
In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways. Hitting walls with your normal weapon is too obvious. There should be more mystery! More secrets! More hidden areas where you can't explore unless you really go out of your way, performing crazy wall jumps, and death defying acrobatics, only to reach your destination and find out that you needed to bring..dunno....DYNAMITE (!) from ten screens ago. I want to be frustrated more.
This is why Chair Entertainment is one of my picks to do future Metroidvanias. They 'get' the formula, and Shadow Complex showed it. :)
At this point I would be happy to give Castlevania to any small developer with a decent track record. As long as they have some love for 2D and know and respect the history of the franchise.
This is why Chair Entertainment is one of my picks to do future Metroidvanias. They 'get' the formula, and Shadow Complex showed it. :)Agreed. We need developers who've already proven that they know how to handle CV-styled 2D games. Shadow Complex was an extraordinary game, so I'd be quite optimistic if Chair was to take the lead. Castlevania simply can't afford to see another title like Mirror of Fate come out.
Well, I guess you're right. Though I honestly think the level design in SotN was less "video gamey" than many of the games that followed it.
In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways. Hitting walls with your normal weapon is too obvious. There should be more mystery! More secrets! More hidden areas where you can't explore unless you really go out of your way, performing crazy wall jumps, and death defying acrobatics, only to reach your destination and find out that you needed to bring..dunno....DYNAMITE (!) from ten screens ago. I want to be frustrated more.
And it may be just me, but seeing those successful, modern games draw comparisons to what Castlevania used to represent makes me wonder just what MercurySteam could possibly be trying to achieve with that strange 'reboot' it had in mind. After all, it's not the most rewarding experience out there to read about how so many great games have "taken inspiration from Castlevania", whereas the actual Castlevania series has for some reason gone masquerading as God of War...Unfortunately, stuff like that happens all the time in the game industry. The original Uncharted took very heavy inspiration from Tomb Raider. Then, years later, the new Tomb Raider comes out and it's basically a total ripoff of Uncharted. This stuff goes back and forth constantly.
One thing this says to me (thinking of my wish to have at least the Belomont, Belnades, Alucard trio on call) is different skills/abilities. I suppose some may say it's...(something...can't think of the word I want)...it does present opportunities for secret areas to come back to later. Somewhere only Alucard can reach in bat or mist form, somewhere only a Belnades using magic/elemental magic can open...stuff like that. Furthermore, in one character's area, place a secret only accessible to another character, eventually opening a route for that character to get there. Maybe that sounds confusing or aggravating, but to me it sounds like maximizing exploration.
The word you're looking for is 'gimmick'...
Another reason why SOTN has never been surpassed (or even rivaled, though that's subjective) could stem from the music. Let's face it: the music was a big part of why we loved the game. Later games had a lot of great tunes but on the whole they just... couldn't truly live up to SOTN's. And that may have pulled down our general experience of every IGA-made game since.As someone whose favorite Metroidvania is SotN and for whom the game would still be 10/10 even if it had no music at all (i.e. not necessarily a big part of why I loved the game), I can't really agree with that. I prefer PoR and OoE's OSTs to SotN's. I feel Yamane finally discovered the heart of how to write catchy VK/WC/BT-like songs in those last years with songs like Jail of Jewels and An Empty Tome.
In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways.
I never actually like any of the Ninja Theory games. I mean, they were all solid titles, but they weren't great, IMO. Might be their visual aesthetic that I'm not the biggest fan of.
Klei Entertainment, the guys who made Mark of the Ninja and Shank, I think could make an interesting Castlevania. Maybe a Castlevania more focused on hunting monsters rather than straightforward jump and whip could be cool.
When it comes to Ninja Theory, there aren't many titles to evaluate -- just Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, and DmC. Granted, the first 2 were very similar in production style, and like I said, DmC was pretty devisive. But that may also leave a lot of untapped potential for a well-loved franchise.
As for Klei, I agree that (much like WayForward and Retro) they could provide a unique and welcome take on 2D Castlevania.
I'm not trying to say they COULDN'T make a cool Castlevania game, they just wouldn't be my first pick based on the fact that I haven't been a huge fan of their other games.
I mean, MercurySteam wouldn't have been even close to one of my first choices for a Castlevania game, but hey, I love LoS, so there's that.
I never actually like any of the Ninja Theory games. I mean, they were all solid titles, but they weren't great, IMO. Might be their visual aesthetic that I'm not the biggest fan of.Yeah, this is basically how I feel. I've played Enslaved and DmC and both of them were just... okay. Enslaved seriously bored the hell out of me but the story and characters were neat. DmC wasn't as much of a bastardization to the DMC series as I thought it would be but the combat was nowhere near as deep as it was in DMC3/4 and, strangely enough, the story and characters were laughably bad. And I mean that literally. I laughed out loud at how bad some of the dialogue was.
Just a curiosity: why hasn't anyone mentioned a Japanese dev? I've even heard some of us ask for anything but...
The truth is, Japan was where Castlevania was born, and Japan was where it had always stayed, up until when Lords of Shadow came along. It may be just me, but it seems logical for a Japanese developer to be better positioned when it comes to understanding the series than a foreign newcomer to the franchise.
That's actually a really neat idea, it's just...
I can't imagine a Castlevania game with no ability to jump.
I would be fine with that idea. I think the series would be suited for a whole lot of different gameplay styles, as long as it's action based. It's fun to think of ideas like these. In my opinion, there really wouldn't be a reason why they couldn't do a rogue-like, or a puzzle-action game, a full-fledged RPG, etc. Games like these with a gothic horror aesthetic haven't actually been done before, so it would definitely allow for some creativity.
I was thinking the same at first, but then I thought... why not? Depending on how the levels are laid out, maybe you could make a game where it's not needed to jump around. Taking further inspiration from the Zelda series, maybe jumping could be handled in a similar fashion - approach a ledge and the character makes a little, automatic skip!I'm actually the opposite of that, as in, I think the LoZ series would be quite superior if they added jumping mechanics. Hell, quite personally, I would love the LoZ series to be more ARPG-esque, with lots of different attack chain techniques, double jumping, air dash, in short, more Kingdom Hearts-ish as far as control went. That's just me, tough.
My first idea for a Castlevania fan game was to have it play like a Golden Axe game being able to walk up and down, but retain the tight CV controls and platforming elements. It was a multi-player game too.
no. multiplayer.
There's no a single series that got better with it, and most of them went to the toilet.
no. multiplayer.
Dungeons and Dragons and Contra are both great co-op games. Just because CV hasn't done it right yet doesn't mean it can't be done.No they are not. They might be fun or whatever but nor they are memorable or deep. Not to mention it kills the atmosphere. Resident Evil, Dead Space, Warcraft, Legacy of Kain (my poor heart), Silent Hill, all ruined and devoid of heart thanks to some suit that decides to scrap atmosphere story and gameplay because kids like mp these days. Not to mentions countless dead tacked on ones (tomb raider, assassins creed, BioShock, batman...) that feels like their resources were needed in the sp and were dead in weeks anyway. And don't get me started on paid online (requirement this gen) server closing (the game gets unplayable at some point of history) and of course, microtransactions (holy mother of god).
Ehh... Harmony of Despair wasn't terrible, but there was literally nothing new or interesting about it outside of it being a multiplayer game. Having played all the levels, grinding for loot was not enough to keep me interested.
I did enjoy spamming the voices though. "YOU TAKE THIS! YOU TAKE THIS!"
Megaman X tried it, Sonic did it well, Why not have a game where segments are side-scrolling platforming and segments where it's full 3D action?
I played MMX7. I didn't like what they did with the game. Megaman and Megaman X are meant to be sidescrollers, not 3D. In terms of CV, I wouldn't mind another reboot if it was closer to the original source material.I concur! If anything, mostly to cut the bullshit. I'm tired of bullshit regarding the inept sleight of hand regarding twists. I think of the line from that old Jim Carry vamp comedy, "Once Bitten": "I'm a mature person and you're a mature person, so why don't we just skip all the bullshit, get rid of our inhibitions, and DO what we really wanna DO?"
In other words, Dracula is Dracula, the Belmont clan is the Belmont clan, Dracula is not a Belmont. Just give a good origin for the whip like LoI did, but make Dracula just Dracula. Not overblown origin is needed for him. Hell, just make him Vlad the Impaler like he originally was in the original cannon.
In other words, Dracula is Dracula, the Belmont clan is the Belmont clan, Dracula is not a Belmont. Just give a good origin for the whip like LoI did, but make Dracula just Dracula. Not overblown origin is needed for him. Hell, just make him Vlad the Impaler like he originally was in the original cannon.
I played MMX7. I didn't like what they did with the game. Megaman and Megaman X are meant to be sidescrollers, not 3D. In terms of CV, I wouldn't mind another reboot if it was closer to the original source material.
In other words, Dracula is Dracula, the Belmont clan is the Belmont clan, Dracula is not a Belmont. Just give a good origin for the whip like LoI did, but make Dracula just Dracula. Not overblown origin is needed for him. Hell, just make him Vlad the Impaler like he originally was in the original cannon.
I want to see it completed too. It was essentially like CV64/LoD only more action oriented then open world. But the overall functions; combat, movement, items, etc. look very much the same as their Nintendo 64 counterparts. Unfortunately it's somewhat impossible to tell exactly how this game would play since we never got to play it :PIn concept(the idea of a 3D CV in the classic sense and look), I liked what Resurrection promised. As far as art design and the time travel story, those two aspects would have to be completely overhauled for a resurrection of Resurrection to interest me. Wouldn't be hard, though. Just get a good concept artist(either some of the those talented folks from the Japanese CVs, or even the folks at MS) and just rewrite the story to NOT have the stupid time travel plot. Simple as that!
I want to see it completed too. It was essentially like CV64/LoD only more action oriented then open world. But the overall functions; combat, movement, items, etc. look very much the same as their Nintendo 64 counterparts. Unfortunately it's somewhat impossible to tell exactly how this game would play since we never got to play it :P
Just get a good concept artist(either some of the those talented folks from the Japanese CVs, or even the folks at MS)
rewrite the story to NOT have the stupid time travel plot. Simple as that!
Victor Belmont was the only one to time travel, but that's only for his story arc. Sonia was resurrected.Still don't like that. Actually. I actually heard Sonia was brought forward in time, because whatever that shit was(Time Guardian?) decided to pull two Belmonts from two eras into the "time where no Belmont exists"(which is strange, because obviously a Belmont HAS to exist if Victor's descended from him/her in the future.
All this wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey stuff reminds me...I love me some Chrono Trigger! I need to play that again!Not everybody can pull off a good time travel story LIKE Chrono Trigger.
Still don't like that. Actually. I actually heard Sonia was brought forward in time, because whatever that shit was(Time Guardian?) decided to pull two Belmonts from two eras into the "time where no Belmont exists"(which is strange, because obviously a Belmont HAS to exist if Victor's descended from him/her in the future.
Personally, nixing the time travel thing would be easy, and you could do it by introducing a theme I've been wanting to see in this series from a while now, making Sonia and Victor siblings. Hell, doesn't even have to be Sonia(you could make her an original female Belmont). It would explain why there are two of them, and you could do some interesting things(character development-wise) regarding rivarly, and the drama that comes with who is eventually chosing to be the wielder of the Vampire Killer and the contempt that the other sibling faces(or at least his/her fight against the jealousy as Dracula's minions whisper sins in their ears and egg them on to fight his/her sibling to claim the whip for his/her own). We've seen similar rivalries, but never between to siblings who are both heirs to the whip.
Not everybody can pull off a good time travel story LIKE Chrono Trigger.
Call me crazy, but I believe LOD was the closest iteration there's been to an actual 3d representation of classicvania, particularly to do with platforming (it certainly got the Clocktower right) the cohesion/composition of the levels and the atmosphere. I'm not saying the game isn't flawed, however, in my mind the concepts of classicvania were retained.
LOI I felt had the story, COD had the varied interconnected environments, both had suitable OSTs... Maybe the next game (if it's 3D) can find some middle ground into the better aspects of all of these games.
Don't give it to another crew like MS, CV needs it's roots back, it beckons for platforming, spikes, medusa heads, oldschool themes and whipping candles hanging in mid air.
I gotta agree with this. Take the good elements from each of these games and throw them into one. I've said it before but CV64 had some cool ideas that I think should come back. My person favorite is the fact vampires are normal enemies and they can turn you into a vampire. Moreover, it's simple and I personally think CV needs some more simple in it.I don't understand why game companies don't do stuff like THAT! That's actually a brilliant idea. Take the good, ditch the bad, and put all the good ideas into one NEW title. It's almost like people feel obligated to never learn from their mistakes but keep making new moves, regardless of gaining positive ground or taking steps back. That's a mindless decision, IMO. Why would anybody not learn from what they do? The good you do, improve it(make it tighter). The bad, drop it. That's common logic. If they took the best aspects from the N64 CV's, IGA's 3Dvanias and LoS games, combined those great aspects into one ultimate 3Dvania while cutting out all the bad parts and flaws, that would be fuckin AWESOME. Again, don't understand why companies don't think this way. It's almost a no brainer.
I've been playing LoI recently and while it's a little flat I still think it's a lot of fun. I think the idea of boss crystals powering your sub weapons was a cool idea that should return. I also think the story is great too. Anywho take the good from these games and give me that CV I've always wanted.
Where is the series going? Probably with a new team and hopefully a new destination. Either another reboot or back to the classicvania timeline and style of gameplay. With progression in the gameplay mech of course.I can only hope Classicvania is what they have in mind but I feel like we'll just get more games inspired by LoS.
Perhaps Sonia Belmont, victors daughter? He could've easily just been saying Gabriel was the final Belmont, just incase Gabriel went back to dracul. Or he could be somewhat iffy and be like "I don't want my daughter bearing the burden" but she wants to and such.If they do make another LoS I wouldn't mind Konami going "jk there are more Belmonts," or an Alucard game.
We don't have to be constrained to whip users, because even with Sonia, the only difference would be how she'd be more atheistic and nimble than the male users.
If they do make another LoS I wouldn't mind Konami going "jk there are more Belmonts," or an Alucard game.
Thing is, certain elements won't mesh together due to inherent differences.Anything can be tailored to 3d gameplay. Cv64/LOD had medusa heads, spikes, bone pillars, towering environments etc. These elements can all work, however it is more common consensus these days that the real issue is accessibility to new and younger gamers who the gaming companies do not want to miss in their target demographic. If games were made as difficult as they used to be with steep learning curves it would be very difficult to have newer gamers commit. Most forms of pop culture really heavily on mass appeal and commercialism these days, which is not necessarily what's the best or 'right' direction.
What works in 2d or primitive 3d won't necessarily work in modern 3d works.
For example: I love orchestra and symphonies, which is why I like listening to lords of shadows soundtrack. The osts for the previous vanias are kinda..hit and miss for me. I love vampire killer, bloody tears, etc. I don't like Simons theme or such.No one is whether people like that or not, the real question is what musical direction is best for the series' integrity. The truth is CV always had a more gothic style musical score particularly with classicvania titles. Throwing in an OST which doesn't particularly suit the series nor retain it's identity shouldn't be how Konami approaches the next game. Assuming CV is brought back to its roots, the music was a very large component of these classic titles, much like legend of Zelda, CV (until LOS) always had a distinct and recognisable musical score, even when titles like LOD and OOE deviated slightly.
If they do make another LoS I wouldn't mind Konami going "jk there are more Belmonts," or an Alucard game.
I can only hope Classicvania is what they have in mind but I feel like we'll just get more games inspired by LoS.
Honestly, I'm down with that.
...Hear me out. If you combine things that fans like about the older games, say the music and overall atmosphere of the older games, along with staying more faithful to the original core storyline then say, combine it with the storytelling, characterization, and general presentation of Lords, I think we'd have a winner.
Could you imagine a game like Castlevania 64 with polished gameplay and the awesome graphics/storytelling/presentation prowess of Lords? That's almost as good a wet dream as Gabe naked. ;)
No, please, my pants... I just changed them
Yep. Come back with a vengeance. After our DMC2 we need our DMC3. LoS3 or equivalent kicking ass and correcting mistakes, please.(click to show/hide)
I can only pray.(click to show/hide)
No one is whether people like that or not, the real question is what musical direction is best for the series' integrity. The truth is CV always had a more gothic style musical score particularly with classicvania titles. Throwing in an OST which doesn't particularly suit the series nor retain it's identity shouldn't be how Konami approaches the next game. Assuming CV is brought back to its roots, the music was a very large component of these classic titles, much like legend of Zelda, CV (until LOS) always had a distinct and recognisable musical score, even when titles like LOD and OOE deviated slightly.I never considered CV1-3 to have a gothic soundtrack. 4 is where the tracks started to ooze atmosphere, and even then, not necessarily a gothic atmosphere, just... atmosphere in general.
That said, I was sad that there wasnt even one orchestrated classic theme.
I don't know if I could live without Trevor anymore. Best Belmont is best. but yeah, new storyline, please keep it simple, a few Belmonts, with marked personalities and different relations to Dracula.I'd love a new reboot that starts with Trevor(kinda a reboot of the CV3 events). I know I keep repeating what I'd like to see, but the whole family/clan aspect, for that particular game(or more, what it brings to the table), it would be perfect to sow the seeds of the relations between Belmont, Dracula(or Draculesti family), Danasty and Belnades. You got it right there, four families embroiled into a struggle. Even apparent that some of those within the familes can turn against their kin(Alucard, for instance), which would add to the drama. Really, also, with Trevor and moving forward, you got a great linear progression(like LoS, in a way) without that "bouncing around the timeline" that the origina canon did so much(and Trevor, as a starting point, is a rather GREAT one at that!).
How about a new timeline with new characters, new story, and almost no references to previous timelines?I can work with that!
Some Belmont facing Dracula for some reason, with a plot that is okay. No need for complicated origins, just an epic adventure journey to a dark castle.
How about a new timeline with new characters, new story, and almost no references to previous timelines?
Some Belmont facing Dracula for some reason, with a plot that is okay. No need for complicated origins, just an epic adventure journey to a dark castle.
Hahaha! For some reason I was imagining what's-his-name from Evil Dead as the Belmont hero when I read that!Both IGA and MS's Draculas are tragic characters(IGA's is more the tragic asshole, MS's is the tragic anti-hero). I'm done with sympathetic villains. It's true, sometimes they can work, but the problem with people(in general) is when they pay witness to something good, they want it in spades. It's the reason why, with trend and things in general, mankind KILLS IT for themselves. You can't have just one good thing, you want it all the time, ad nauseam. Variety's the spice of life. Not every character should be developed the same way, and just because it works for some doesn't mean it would work for all.
This I can work with too. All new Belmont's (especially female Belmont's), all new stories, and hopefully a kick-ass evil version of Vlad Tepes Dracula and not his tragic IGA counterpart.
Both IGA and MS's Draculas are tragic characters(IGA's is more the tragic asshole, MS's is the tragic anti-hero). I'm done with sympathetic villains. It's true, sometimes they can work, but the problem with people(in general) is when they pay witness to something good, they want it in spades. It's the reason why, with trend and things in general, mankind KILLS IT for themselves. You can't have just one good thing, you want it all the time, ad nauseam. Variety's the spice of life. Not every character should be developed the same way, and just because it works for some doesn't mean it would work for all.
A Dracula that commits supremely evil acts, but still has his emotions.
So SotN Dracula, basically.
Well we never actually see any Castlevania Dracula do anything at all do we?
Well, in Rondo of Blood you see his armies destroy Aljiba, and in Mirror of Fate you see his armies kill Simon's mother and overrun the Brotherhood. Then in LoS2 you get to see him eat people, but that gives way very quickly to "I want to be good" Dracula.
I like tragic villains, but I like more standard villains too. I just don't like the "I'm an evil final boss with a chip on his shoulder...oooohhhh, scaaarrryyyyy" that Dracula has been. He has no Luca Blight moments where you go, "Man, I need to kill that guy!"
Well in the old series you just had all kinds of undead and stuff terrorizing the populace anyway in general. Because in Simons Quest that stuff was still going on, and Dracula was dead. And in Mirror of Fate he does that because he's outraged that the Brotherhood sent his own son to try and kill him.
But Castlevania Dracula himself, never really as ever done anything other than just be waiting in his throne room for someone to assault him. The most I can think of is his little conversation with whatsherface in the original Rondo of Blood who he's keeping captive and his alternate forms in Castlevania 64/Legacy of Darkness
I always imagined it as the Belmonts arriving at the castle like the day of his resurrection. Like some kind of Belmont Sense goes off and they just know.
Like Dracula just gets resurrected, takes a walk around the throne room to stretch his legs, asks for a nice goblet of blood as one would want for their first morning coffee and before he can even get it, he gets reports from flying medusa heads that there's already a Belmont in the castle.
Then he just gets pissed off, throws everyone out of the throne room and just sits on his throne and pouts for an hour until this years model storms the throne room and starts giving some grand speech about god, love, and justice, that he hears every damn time thinking that maybe this year, maybe this year, they won't jump over my fireballs and whip my face.
But they do, and he gets sent back to the void, and the very next thing he sees is his next ressurection....and someone tells him there's a Belmont in the castle.
Well, in Rondo of Blood you see his armies destroy Aljiba, and in Mirror of Fate you see his armies kill Simon's mother and overrun the Brotherhood. Then in LoS2 you get to see him eat people, but that gives way very quickly to "I want to be good" Dracula.Luca Blight... THAT is exactly what we need the next Dracula to be like. You knew why he was the way he was, and you can say it's tragic in a sense, but never once to do sympathize for him after all the atrocities he's commited. He's almost like a sociopathic serial killer, you know there's a reason why they are the way they are, but what they've become is beyond redemption. They've basically become evil incarnate, the darkest side of mankind. Living, breathing monsters.
I like tragic villains, but I like more standard villains too. I just don't like the "I'm an evil final boss with a chip on his shoulder...oooohhhh, scaaarrryyyyy" that Dracula has been. He has no Luca Blight moments where you go, "Man, I need to kill that guy!"
Luca Blight... THAT is exactly what we need the next Dracula to be like. You knew why he was the way he was, and you can say it's tragic in a sense, but never once to do sympathize for him after all the atrocities he's commited. He's almost like a sociopathic serial killer, you know there's a reason why they are the way they are, but what they've become is beyond redemption. They've basically become evil incarnate, the darkest side of mankind. Living, breathing monsters.
Exactly. I agree completely.
Luca Blight was one of the best gaming villains ever, IMO. He spreads so much sorrow and misery, makes you hate him, and then when it's time to fight him, it practically takes an army to put him down.
Exactly. I agree completely.There's nothing wrong with the pure evil if you know there's a reason why they are pure evil. Luca Blight's evil, like I said, is similar to what you'd see in some sociapathic serial killers, even the monsters of history(Stalin, Hussein,...). People who become monsters, to the point that their regard for life, compassion and empathy is gone. Their basic human understanding has grown cold, emotionless. That's pretty damn realistic. One would also say, that makes it more SCARY. There ARE tyrants out there in our history's past that commited so much horrible acts because they believed it to be right, and in process, many innocent people have been snuffed out because of them.
Luca Blight was one of the best gaming villains ever, IMO. Sure, he's a bit on the "pure evil" side, which I usually find shallow, but they gave him enough of a backstory that you can understand it to an extent. Then he spreads so much sorrow and misery, makes you hate him, and then when it's time to fight him, it practically takes an army to put him down.
Luca Blight... THAT is exactly what we need the next Dracula to be like. You knew why he was the way he was, and you can say it's tragic in a sense, but never once to do sympathize for him after all the atrocities he's commited. He's almost like a sociopathic serial killer, you know there's a reason why they are the way they are, but what they've become is beyond redemption. They've basically become evil incarnate, the darkest side of mankind. Living, breathing monsters.
Well we never actually see any Castlevania Dracula do anything at all do we?
Ironically enough you've just described our real-life Vlad Tepes. He wasn't apologetic for any of the horrid things he'd done. Far from it, he actually took pleasure in such activities. Even when his own wife threw herself out of the tower window he didn't mourn her loss as a normal person did. In order to cut down on poverty in Romania he had all the poor people killed. His life began with tragedy during his childhood, but later-on is someone who was in essence a sociopathic madman who felt completely normal. This is what we need Dracula to go back to. The very man that Bram Stoker drew inspiration from. Heck it's even noted that the real-life Vlad is far more fearful then his Vampire counterpart.One of the reasons I WANT a Dracula more aligned with his historical counterpart. Real Vlad III did some horrible, horrific and vile things to people, but you also know he most likely believed all these were justified. Sometimes history's more interesting that fiction, even scarier. Out of all the depictions of Dracula, real Vlad III is the most horrific of them all. Imagine taking that horrific, real aspect and applying it to a vampire Dracula. IMO, that would be the ultimate fictional depiction of Dracula(who knows, some might've already done that, as I don't pretend to know ALL the fiction based on Dracula out there, and there's quite a LOT of it from books to comics and such).
One of the reasons I WANT a Dracula more aligned with his historical counterpart. Real Vlad III did some horrible, horrific and vile things to people, but you also know he most likely believed all these were justified. Sometimes history's more interesting that fiction, even scarier. Out of all the depictions of Dracula, real Vlad III is the most horrific of them all. Imagine taking that horrific, real aspect and applying it to a vampire Dracula. IMO, that would be the ultimate fictional depiction of Dracula(who knows, some might've already done that, as I don't pretend to know ALL the fiction based on Dracula out there, and there's quite a LOT of it from books to comics and such).
Even better, the Romanians saw Vlad Dracula as a hero.You can even use that as part of his(Dracula's) character. He feels it's his destiny to RULE, so he's going to fine whatever means to do so and KEEP ruling(as a vampire). He probably things he's the thing his people deserve, and he'll be the one to lead them into victory against all of Europe(and the world). "My loyal people deserve the best in this world, so to purify this world for them, I have to rid it of the undesirables and those who oppose me. For opposing me is opposing my people, and nobody opposes my people!".
I always imagined it as the Belmonts arriving at the castle like the day of his resurrection. Like some kind of Belmont Sense goes off and they just know.(http://art.ngfiles.com/images/37/xizrax_castlevania-pof.jpg)
Like Dracula just gets resurrected, takes a walk around the throne room to stretch his legs, asks for a nice goblet of blood as one would want for their first morning coffee and before he can even get it, he gets reports from flying medusa heads that there's already a Belmont in the castle.
Then he just gets pissed off, throws everyone out of the throne room and just sits on his throne and pouts for an hour until this years model storms the throne room and starts giving some grand speech about god, love, and justice, that he hears every damn time thinking that maybe this year, maybe this year, they won't jump over my fireballs and whip my face.
But they do, and he gets sent back to the void, and the very next thing he sees is his next ressurection....and someone tells him there's a Belmont in the castle.
You can even use that as part of his(Dracula's) character. He feels it's his destiny to RULE, so he's going to fine whatever means to do so and KEEP ruling(as a vampire). He probably things he's the thing his people deserve, and he'll be the one to lead them into victory against all of Europe(and the world). "My loyal people deserve the best in this world, so to purify this world for them, I have to rid it of the undesirables and those who oppose me. For opposing me is opposing my people, and nobody opposes my people!".
You can even work that into the story, have a great deal of Romanians(Translyvanias/Wallachians) be aligned with Dracula. Half of the country is pro-Dracula, the other half are the resistance(lead by the Church, the Belmonts and Danasty clan). Go even further and you can add some interesting aspects of trust, espionage and treachery. Who do you trust? Which one of the so-called "comrades" are actually in league with Dracula's forces? Who in the Church is pulling the strings and trying to cause the resistence to fall in on itself? Hell, who among Dracula's allies and family(Alucard, or even Vlad the Monk, Dracula's half-brother) are turning against him, even allowing the resistance to enter the dark country through the veil of secrecy?
That wasn't "Dracula" that was Matthias, and we never saw that either.
You're ignoring that I mentioned the scenes during Rondo where he actually has a conversation with whats her face, and the scenes of his alternate forms in the N64 games, and we never actually see him kidnap the other girls, we don't even know for sure if he did it personally.
Same goes for Solieyu Belmont. We never saw him do that, and we don't know for certain that he did it personally.
So like I said, its a very rare to non-existent thing, to, during the course of a Castlevania game, see Dracula actually do anything.
Just noting that Koji Igarashi has a talk at GDC about the Castlevania series development. I don't think Konami would let him go unless they planned on doing something with him again. Perhaps at some point about 2 years ago they saw that this was the end of LoS so they should start working on the next CV in tandem. You know, like they used to do in the height of the series.
Here's a link to info about the talk. http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828360 (http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828360)
I made a thread about it a week ago, he's only there as a guest speaker. There are no plans to announce any new Castlevania game at GDC.Sorry for the redundant post. Normally game announcements don't happen at GDC but he might still tease something...or crush all hope. XD
Sorry for the redundant post. Normally game announcements don't happen at GDC but he might still tease something...or crush all hope. XD
And that nature is old, tired, and boring. The series can't exist without him in some form, so why not give the guy a little more screen time and actually make something of him?
And no, it was Mathias. Mathias wasn't "Dracula" until the very end of the game when he took Walters power.
I had an argument but like I said earlier, petty semantics and hair splitting zangetsu is all we're down to nowWe... No
I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore.Poor you.. Woe is you
You agree with me that the series revolves around Dracula and couldn't exist without him so I don't know where you're even going with this anymore.You not knowing = not my problem.. moving along..
Lords of Shadow brought him into the front of the series, and I don't think he should return to just being that guy you fight in the last room, and nothing more.[/quote]
I had an argument but like I said earlier, petty semantics and hair splitting zangetsu is all we're down to now, I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore. You agree with me that the series revolves around Dracula and couldn't exist without him so I don't know where you're even going with this anymore.Except the FIRST LoS, which.... didn't have Dracula until the very end(and only showed how he became a vampire with DLC, UNLIKE LoS, in which he WAS a vampire by the end of the game and said, in the ending, that he became Dracula. LoI and LoS are really close in depicting Mathias/Gabriel's origins as Dracula, as in being super vague as hell and never relishing in the transformation within the base game(not counting DLC of LoS).
Lords of Shadow brought him into the front of the series, and I don't think he should return to just being that guy you fight in the last room, and nothing more.
I meant that our discussion of at what point of the game Lament of Innocence was Matthias *technically* Dracula. That's getting down to semantics and hair splitting and there's not much of a point in continuing to beat the dead horse. I think he's not actually Dracula until he takes Walters soul at the end of the game, and actually becomes a vampire there in the final scene. To me, all of the other actions he took in the story before that point were the actions of an evil man named Matthias and you disagree, I was just ceding that discussion to you by saying I could still argue my point, but why bother? We both stated our positions clearly.
No, I'm not really sure what your point is anymore. You agree that Dracula is central to the franchise but you seem to have totally misunderstood what I meant by giving him more time in the game other than being just the end boss and nothing more. I never said how other than perhaps in one game Dracula isn't even in his castle, but off doing *something* whatever that may be would be up to the writers of said game. I'd just like to see him doing something, even if its just popping up from time to time to taunt our protagonist, making himself known at the beginning of the game in some way.
I'd rather it not be as you described personally, to me all of that sounds pretty one dimensional.
Except the FIRST LoS, which.... didn't have Dracula until the very end(and only showed how he became a vampire with DLC, UNLIKE LoS, in which he WAS a vampire by the end of the game and said, in the ending, that he became Dracula. LoI and LoS are really close in depicting Mathias/Gabriel's origins as Dracula, as in being super vague as hell and never relishing in the transformation within the base game(not counting DLC of LoS).Yep. Although LOS is a different execution of CV, I've always noted that it reused a lot of things from the older series.
But, I don't agree with you, either. Dracula's theme and presence(even if he isn't around) is the thing that should remain. He doesn't have to be the star or main villain of EACH game.This. Couldn't have said it better or more succinctly myself
They didn't set a specific time during which Alucard put Dracula to sleep. They could always just say, "That happened in 1400" and then give themselves about 300 years for games against Dracula, and 400 years for games with no Dracula.it happens in 1547 i think (based on the scrolls found in LOS2). 446 years after MOF.
it happens in 1547 i think (based on the scrolls found in LOS2). 446 years after MOF.
Eurogamer on UK charts..."Mind you, LOS2 still recorded the second best week-one sales in the entire Castlevania franchise (behind LOS1)"