Topic: The Future of the Castlevania Series

[DoctaMario]

Every single one of IGA's Metroidvanias captured the essential SoTN magic, each in a subtly different way than the next -- that's, after all, what made them so great. And yet we all continue to crave for the proud successor of the Symphony, that inevitable masterpiece we seem to be inching ever so close to, but that we never seem to reach. Here's the truth: the modern "SoTN 2.0" can't simply be a formula remake, no matter how skillfully executed it is; it needs to carry all of Symphony's magic... and more. We're still missing that quintessential spark of energy that will push us into Castlevania's next great era, that same essential force that ushered the series into the Metroidvania age.

I disagree. To me, a lot of the subsequent Metroidvanias were like a band that has a hit, and they spend the next 10 years trying unsuccessfully to recreate that hit. Some attempts are better than others, but none of them measure up, and after awhile, it becomes apparent what they're trying to do. As much as I like several of the subsequent games, none of them are as good as SoTN was, maybe in part because, like X said, it was the first of its kind and benefit from being released on a console as opposed to a hand-held.

SoTN has that certain je ne sais quois. You could analyze it, but at the end of the day, there's something about it that defies analysis. If it were something possible to capture, we'd have had a sequel even better a long time ago.

[Claimh Solais]

I disagree. To me, a lot of the subsequent Metroidvanias were like a band that has a hit, and they spend the next 10 years trying unsuccessfully to recreate that hit. Some attempts are better than others, but none of them measure up, and after awhile, it becomes apparent what they're trying to do. As much as I like several of the subsequent games, none of them are as good as SoTN was, maybe in part because, like X said, it was the first of its kind and benefit from being released on a console as opposed to a hand-held.

SoTN has that certain je ne sais quois. You could analyze it, but at the end of the day, there's something about it that defies analysis. If it were something possible to capture, we'd have had a sequel even better a long time ago.

If you pay close attention to everything in SotN, there is just a whole lot of interesting stuff that the subsequent games just haven't done. For example, why the hell was Simon hanging from his foot by a rope in the Outer Wall? Why was there a massive Peeping Eye peeking out the back window in the Marble Gallery? Why was there a hidden elevator in the Outer Wall that led down to a room you normally need mist form to enter? Why could you look through a telescope to see the Ferryman? Why could you watch a bird lay eggs, which eventually hatch to form more birds? Etc. etc. etc.

It's these little interesting tidbits and pieces of detail that are lacking from every other game. There was just so much extra stuff in the game that are meaningless yet help make the package that much better. The following games just... haven't done that.

[crisis]

Also, multiple shields, multiple capes, complex combinations to perform dozens of spells, then there's the whole Saturn edition with the "lost levels," dozens of easter eggs, plus that supposed 5th ending that had Maria transform into a demon and Alucard killing her and Richiter. The cheezy voice acting (although I love it), Richiter literallyrealistically moving his arm when he flails the whip, excellent parallax/3D backgrounds everywhere, the confessional, the way Alucard cracks his back when he comes to a sudden stop near a ledge, all these little useless details add up to make an incredible experience despite it's easy difficulty.

Like I said, I just think the window of opportunity for a follow-up that matches or perhaps surpasses Symphony has long passed. Had Konami immediately began development on a new console-based metroivania instead of releasing Castlevania 64, then we might have seen such a game.


Of course, this is all subjective. To some, Symphony has already been "dethroned" by other games in the series. But like I said in another thread, I still believe had Aria of Sorrow been a console release and with much attention to detail as Symphony had, then it would stand as it's true "equal"

[DoctaMario]

For example, why the hell was Simon hanging from his foot by a rope in the Outer Wall?

O_o Tell me more.... I thought it was just a random skeleton...



All the stuff you guys just said is part of what I'm talking about. The little special hidden things like the Sword Brothers spell, the little easter eggs and such. You could tell that game was made with a lot of love. Which is something that I don't necessarily get from the subsequent games.

[Belmontoya]

I'm about to say something that is sure to get me a few negative votes on this post.

As much as I love SOTN, I would have much rather had a sequel to SCV4 than SOTN.

Let me clarify. I think a sequel developed by the same team that made SCV4, in the open world style of Simon's Quest, would have blown SOTN away. Just imagine a game with the mechanics, music, and graphical style of SCV4 in glorious 32 bit, with an open world adventure and character development. Just the thought of that sends a tickle down my spine.

I also think that it would have pointed Castlevania in a better direction for the long run that SOTN did.

[NocturnalMango]

It would be cool if they go back to the real timeline after LOS2.

The sooner we put this fake Cox crap timeline behind us the better. 

[Ahasverus]

I agree with everything said here about "the second SOTN".
It's not coming, never, because SOTN was special, it was a thing on its own, and has such an attention to detail, in every way, every background tells a story, every frame of Alucard's animation is polished to an stounding point of fluidity, the perfect marriage between the stages ad the music, the barroque of EVERYTHING from weapons to capes to textures, the little easter eggs, the grandiosity it poured the more time it passed... SOTN felt like its creators (and every one of them deserve credit) wanted to give it all to it, and have nothing left. And that's precisely what happened, every metroidvania has been a retread and each gimmick igarashi invented just destroyed the balance of its original model.

There won't be other SOTN becasue SOTN is the best SOTN can be. It's that simple.

Castlevania needs another labour of love, another game polished to death (I deep down wish this 6 month LoS2 delay gave it time to polish to hell and back so their ambitious vision comes fulfilled) another game that thinks about itself as the greatest it can aspire to be, not thinking about genre conventions, just about how every piece of it makes sense in relation to others, that and the extra *charm* that becomes the window to appreciate its common element (gameplay) by virtue of its unique elements (little details) as in, "hey this game plays and feels so perfect that I can stop thinking about it as a compilations of gameplay systems and start admiring its artistic detail as part of itself".

I couldn't care less about timelines or producers or whatever. This is the only thing I can hope for.

[X]

I'm about to say something that is sure to get me a few negative votes on this post.

As much as I love SOTN, I would have much rather had a sequel to SCV4 than SOTN.

Let me clarify. I think a sequel developed by the same team that made SCV4, in the open world style of Simon's Quest, would have blown SOTN away. Just imagine a game with the mechanics, music, and graphical style of SCV4 in glorious 32 bit, with an open world adventure and character development. Just the thought of that sends a tickle down my spine.

Ya know what? I really, really want to see this too! SCV4 was a classicvania one hit-wonder and it deserves a grandiose sequel.

[theANdROId]

You could tell that game was made with a lot of love. Which is something that I don't necessarily get from the subsequent games.

I've kinda felt this way about a lot of modern games and developers lately...where's the love for the product?

[e105beta]

IMO, if they want to make a "Symphony of the 2.0", they just need to capture the atmosphere of the castle again. The problem is that atmosphere can be one of the most transient things in game design.

I didn't play Symphony of the Night when it first came out. I always had Nintendo consoles, so I got to AoS, DoS, and PoR before I ever had a chance to play Symphony of the Night on my PSP. I'm just going out of my way to say this because sometimes "atmosphere" is just another word for nostalgia, but Symphony of the Night really did have it in spades were its successors didn't.

A big part of it is the castle design. Aside from the lack of reused enemy sprites that the later games became notorious for, the castle itself is very unique from location to location. Very few rooms are copies of other rooms, or even similar to them, both layout-wise and art-wise. Backgrounds are very identifiable and most rooms have design elements or set pieces that make you say "Oh, I'm in THIS room". And with all the little details added in addition, it makes the castle seem very real, like you're actually exploring a building something built that creatures are living in and not a series of rooms divided up into sections (see "levels"). There were even whole sections you could miss and not even realize it. Now, obviously the other Metroidvania's weren't entirely copy paste, but their castle's weren't nearly as well thought out as Symphony's.

Adding onto that, the music drives the atmosphere way more than the other games. It is grandiose and dramatic at times, hopping and jazzy at others, and even soft and sad as well, but never really delves into the gameyness that the other Metroidvania's could. I think AoS might have been able to replicate this if it had better hardware, but the GBA just can't output that kind of sound. You can hear the compositional shortcuts Yamane had to take, and I don't know whether it was the hardware or just the influence of working on the GBA, but her compositional style totally changed from Symphony of the Night to Order of Ecclesia. IMO, the music became less atmospheric and more focused on itself. A Metroidvania that had a soundtrack like Lament of Innocence's would knock it out of the park.

Because really, mechanically, Symphony of the Night probably has been surpassed. The Soul System trimmed the fat from all of Alucard's numerous, numerous, and sometimes pointless options. Spells, familiars, relics, sub-weapons, weapon abilities, and what have you all became different souls to collect, instead of filling up vast, various menus of different abilities and items where half would probably only be touched a once or twice. Sure, there were great items like the shield rod, the spike armor, the capes, the muramasa, and others that had some real personality to them, but there was also a lot of clutter. Not to say future Metroidvania's didn't have their crap skills/items, but you could tell the thought process behind a lot of them was "Well, it has to have a soul. It can, uh, fire, er, another projectile?" Symphony of the Night sometimes just had item clutter. If anything Order of Ecclesia did a very good job of only giving you abilities that had a purpose, now we just need a game that brings the character that Symphony of the Night had back to the weapon and combat systems.

[theANdROId]

Very well said!

[X]

The Soul System trimmed the fat from all of Alucard's numerous, numerous, and sometimes pointless options. Spells, familiars, relics, sub-weapons, weapon abilities, and what have you all became different souls to collect, instead of filling up vast, various menus of different abilities and items where half would probably only be touched a once or twice.

B-But...the fat is what made SotN so delicious... 

[theANdROId]

B-But...the fat is what made SotN so delicious... 

True, perhaps!  But that doesn't mean we should always gorge ourselves on delicious fattyness, right?  Gotta have a healthy and slimming "Castlevania salad" every now and then, right? ;-)

[crisis]

It was also cool how they even went so far as to give the Familiars personalities. If Alucard sits in a chair for too long and falls asleep, the Fairy would take a rest on his shoulder, and when he wakes up, she falls off abruptly. Or putting the game into a CD player and hearing Alucard tell you that this is a "playstation disc." That game has so much style it's not even funny man. There's things about it that many people didn't discover for YEARS. That's what makes it legendary.

And you're lying if you've never went through each item & weapon just to read all the unique descriptions. I'll never get bored with Symphony.

[darkmanx_429]

It was also cool how they even went so far as to give the Familiars personalities. If Alucard sits in a chair for too long and falls asleep, the Fairy would take a rest on his shoulder, and when he wakes up, she falls off abruptly. Or putting the game into a CD player and hearing Alucard tell you that this is a "playstation disc." That game has so much style it's not even funny man. There's things about it that many people didn't discover for YEARS. That's what makes it legendary.

And you're lying if you've never went through each item & weapon just to read all the unique descriptions. I'll never get bored with Symphony.

Amen.