Topic: The Future of the Castlevania Series

[DoctaMario]

I'm about to say something that is sure to get me a few negative votes on this post.

As much as I love SOTN, I would have much rather had a sequel to SCV4 than SOTN.

Let me clarify. I think a sequel developed by the same team that made SCV4, in the open world style of Simon's Quest, would have blown SOTN away. Just imagine a game with the mechanics, music, and graphical style of SCV4 in glorious 32 bit, with an open world adventure and character development. Just the thought of that sends a tickle down my spine.

I also think that it would have pointed Castlevania in a better direction for the long run that SOTN did.

I got a boner while reading this post. xD I'd LOVE to see that!

Another thing I think is interesting about SoTN is the glitching thing. Its utterly ridiculous but I remember for a period of time it was interesting to see when they'd get a few more rooms over at World Beyond Walls.

[K.G. Morder]

I think part of the SoTN magic is that it was hot off the tails of Rondo- it is, a sequel to rondo, so the visuals were still really fresh. It reused some of Rondo's assets, but considering it was a direct sequel, and it was the first game to do so, it's not noticed. it also added a lot of original assets.

Later games however, just fell too into the habit of reusing rondo's sprites, so that we were seeing the same goddamn skeleton years after he originally appeared. So the visuals got a little stale in some areas.

Another issue, is that despite trying to recapture that magic, IGA didn't seem to realize, that the gameplay was good. Instead, he tried to push many different gimmicks, because thats how he designs. gimmick first, game and story after. Some gimmicks worked better than others, (the Soul system was basically just a fancy subweapon and ability equip system) but yeah. That's my 2 Cents

[Intersection]

Another issue, is that despite trying to recapture that magic, IGA didn't seem to realize, that the gameplay was good. Instead, he tried to push many different gimmicks, because thats how he designs. gimmick first, game and story after. Some gimmicks worked better than others, (the Soul system was basically just a fancy subweapon and ability equip system) but yeah. That's my 2 Cents

With that kind of logic, you'd have reason to call just about any gaming mechanic gimmicky. Incidentally, there's a point where every combat system in gaming can be reduced to a "fancy subweapon and ability equip system".

As it is, the only gimmicks I'd found in IGA's titles were the DS touch-screen abilities.

[Solomon]

I really hated that. For all my misgivings with Mercurysteam and LOS, I'm glad they were smart enough not to insert some similarly-fancy gimmick just to show off the 3DS' capabilities.

Another issue, is that despite trying to recapture that magic, IGA didn't seem to realize, that the gameplay was good. Instead, he tried to push many different gimmicks, because thats how he designs. gimmick first, game and story after. Some gimmicks worked better than others, (the Soul system was basically just a fancy subweapon and ability equip system) but yeah. That's my 2 Cents

Another reason why SOTN has never been surpassed (or even rivaled, though that's subjective) could stem from the music. Let's face it: the music was a big part of why we loved the game. Later games had a lot of great tunes but on the whole they just... couldn't truly live up to SOTN's. And that may have pulled down our general experience of every IGA-made game since.

[theANdROId]

Well, I was gonna say that I felt like CotM came pretty close...but if I'm reading my Google searches right, IGA didn't actually have anything to do with that one.

[Ahasverus]

I really hated that. For all my misgivings with Mercurysteam and LOS, I'm glad they were smart enough not to insert some similarly-fancy gimmick just to show off the 3DS' capabilities.

MoF is commonly lauded as one of the best uses of 3D ever in any medium.

What happened with the game is sad. They had the idea, the best idea, sadly execution didn't live up to it.

[Shiroi Koumori]

MoF is commonly lauded as one of the best uses of 3D ever in any medium.

What happened with the game is sad. They had the idea, the best idea, sadly execution didn't live up to it.

I can't comment on the 3D since my eyes cannot withstand 3D.
I do agree that their execution was a problem.

[Intersection]

I really hated that. For all my misgivings with Mercurysteam and LOS, I'm glad they were smart enough not to insert some similarly-fancy gimmick just to show off the 3DS' capabilities.

Not too sure about that. Movement was, after all, entirely locked to the circle pad. Frustrating as hell, it was.
And the entire game 2.5D gameplay could be viewed in 3D. What else could that have been for than to show off the 3DS's capabilities?

Another reason why SOTN has never been surpassed (or even rivaled, though that's subjective) could stem from the music. Let's face it: the music was a big part of why we loved the game. Later games had a lot of great tunes but on the whole they just... couldn't truly live up to SOTN's. And that may have pulled down our general experience of every IGA-made game since.

I don't think I agree. Music was a big part of why we loved SoTN, but it was also a big part of why we loved every single Castlevania game that came after it. And in that respect, SoTN's music had been equaled a long time ago.
If you're speaking about overall musical quality, LoI and CoD easily match SoTN's soundtrack. And as for the handheld titles, they've done quite a lot to 'live up' to SoTN -- their music is of recognizably Castlevanian excellence, and many of their pieces truly stand out. You might also remember that handhelds don't exactly allow for the same musical freedom as consoles do.

I'm also wondering why we're making this artificial connection between IGA's involvement and the music of his later titles. As far as I know, IGA doesn't compose...

[beingthehero]

IGA did everything there ever was. He programmed them, composed for them, did all the graphics, enemy designs, character designs, and personally made sure nobody here enjoyed them. His most dastardly deed was slapping the KCEK games out of the hands of those who played them and told them to never ever play them again ever.

[Nagumo]

Director
IGA

Assistant Director
IGA

Programmer
IGA

Music Composer
IGA

ENDING THEME
"True To Your Dreams"

Written by
IGA

Vocals
IGA

Special Thanks
IGA

And IGA!
 
DEVELOPED BY IGA
1986 2013 IGA ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

[VladCT]

Well at least we're not looking at Yoshio Sakamoto.

[Intersection]

It's called an igallergic reaction.

[e105beta]

Director
IGA

Assistant Director
IGA

Programmer
IGA

Music Composer
IGA

ENDING THEME
"True To Your Dreams"

Written by
IGA

Vocals
IGA

Special Thanks
IGA

And IGA!
 
DEVELOPED BY IGA
1986 2013 IGA ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

Sounds like a Daisuke Ishiwatari game

[X]

Well, I was gonna say that I felt like CotM came pretty close...but if I'm reading my Google searches right, IGA didn't actually have anything to do with that one.

I agree. Loved CotM. And you are correct that IGA had nothing to do with it. It was done by KCEK. The plot was simple and well executed. It wasn't overly layered as was the other Metroiedvania that came after it, and it didn't need to be. The only downside is that there were no Belmonts in the game. However the only character I felt who'd pass for a Belmont in that game was Nathan Graves. And not just because he was a whip wielder either 

[nokundhi]

I think this topic does a good job explaining what made SOTN so great, even if it was inferior mechanically to prior games and later ones as well.

IMO, if they want to make a "Symphony of the 2.0", they just need to capture the atmosphere of the castle again. The problem is that atmosphere can be one of the most transient things in game design.

I didn't play Symphony of the Night when it first came out. I always had Nintendo consoles, so I got to AoS, DoS, and PoR before I ever had a chance to play Symphony of the Night on my PSP. I'm just going out of my way to say this because sometimes "atmosphere" is just another word for nostalgia, but Symphony of the Night really did have it in spades were its successors didn't.

A big part of it is the castle design. Aside from the lack of reused enemy sprites that the later games became notorious for, the castle itself is very unique from location to location. Very few rooms are copies of other rooms, or even similar to them, both layout-wise and art-wise. Backgrounds are very identifiable and most rooms have design elements or set pieces that make you say "Oh, I'm in THIS room". And with all the little details added in addition, it makes the castle seem very real, like you're actually exploring a building something built that creatures are living in and not a series of rooms divided up into sections (see "levels"). There were even whole sections you could miss and not even realize it. Now, obviously the other Metroidvania's weren't entirely copy paste, but their castle's weren't nearly as well thought out as Symphony's.

Adding onto that, the music drives the atmosphere way more than the other games. It is grandiose and dramatic at times, hopping and jazzy at others, and even soft and sad as well, but never really delves into the gameyness that the other Metroidvania's could. I think AoS might have been able to replicate this if it had better hardware, but the GBA just can't output that kind of sound. You can hear the compositional shortcuts Yamane had to take, and I don't know whether it was the hardware or just the influence of working on the GBA, but her compositional style totally changed from Symphony of the Night to Order of Ecclesia. IMO, the music became less atmospheric and more focused on itself. A Metroidvania that had a soundtrack like Lament of Innocence's would knock it out of the park.

Because really, mechanically, Symphony of the Night probably has been surpassed. The Soul System trimmed the fat from all of Alucard's numerous, numerous, and sometimes pointless options. Spells, familiars, relics, sub-weapons, weapon abilities, and what have you all became different souls to collect, instead of filling up vast, various menus of different abilities and items where half would probably only be touched a once or twice. Sure, there were great items like the shield rod, the spike armor, the capes, the muramasa, and others that had some real personality to them, but there was also a lot of clutter. Not to say future Metroidvania's didn't have their crap skills/items, but you could tell the thought process behind a lot of them was "Well, it has to have a soul. It can, uh, fire, er, another projectile?" Symphony of the Night sometimes just had item clutter. If anything Order of Ecclesia did a very good job of only giving you abilities that had a purpose, now we just need a game that brings the character that Symphony of the Night had back to the weapon and combat systems.

Yeah, I think the atmosphere was a major part of why SOTN is still fondly remembered. The game just oozed this dark ambiance that later games lacked. The great music that was unfortunately difficult to reproduce on portable consoles, the memorable and sometimes gorgeous area designs, the sound effects, the campy voice acting, the cool little places like the confessional room, the art style, all of it came together to make it much more than the sum of its parts. I think later games sometimes had elements of this but not all at once. For example, LoI and CoD had great music but very bland levels, although a few places were well designed (I'm thinking of the extra boss areas, which were wonderfully morbid). Harmony of Despair had cool areas but poor quality music due to technical limitations.