Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[A n t r a x x]

I'm starting to think it is its own universe.

[DoctaMario]

I really like what I've seen of this game so far. I haven't been totally happy with IGA's output (DXC notwithstanding as it's simply one of hte best things to happen to Castlevania IMO) so seeing it in other hands is good in my mind.

To the folks on not liking this so far: Would your opinion of what we've seen change if Alucard or a Belmont were the main character?

[GrantDaMummy]

Hmm, I'm seeing on various webpages that apparently this game was described as a "reboot" to the series at E3. If that's what Konami is describing the game as then we can be certain that this is not part of the original games storyline, but the start of a new storyline entirely.

It seems Konami has basically thrown "canon" debates to the wind. It appears there will be essentially two series now, two "canons". This reboot will effectively replace the previous series if its well received. Seeing how well designed it appears to be, I'm thinking that's going to be a strong possibility. This looks like something that will draw in a new audience, as well as the old.

In so far the gameplay is fun, I'm sold. This things looks leaps and bounds above any previous 3-d castlevania game designers have developed, especially IGA's additions to the series.

Less of course IGA's nextgen Castlevania game is still in production, in which case we have essentially two series developed in parallel to each other. Only time will tell.

[A n t r a x x]

Yeah at the end of the trailer it states:

2

[Saner]

yeah well King of Fighters XII is considered a rebirth too,

  but it still is counted as part of the main KOF series.  and some of the characters have undergone changes based on the story in KOFXI which will continue in KOFXIII.

if Konami separates LOS from the rest of Castlevania, they are betraying the series that helped them the most back then during the NES days.

[RichterB]

The newest Kojima Productions Podcast at Hideoblog talks briefly about Castlevania: LoS. While it does not attempt to go into Lord of Shadows showing at GDC08 as a seemingly independent title, it does mention what Kojima's involvement is: he's executive producer, or as they described it: "A Hand's Off Adviser." (In other words, it's NOT "Kojima's Castlevania" as people have been painting it. It seems he's just there to make the whole thing sound better for the public). Dave Cox, who worked with Kojima on marketing MGS in Europe is moreso the one overseeing LoS on the ground according to this official podcast. EDIT: The podcast also mentioned something to the effect that it was interesting to see Castlevania, which is typically "anime"-based, go for a more serious look. (A few games with anime art and now Castlevania was never gritty or serious? What?)

[Oralox]

Gabriel: G...it sure is boring around
Zobeck: Mah boi this lords of shadow is what all true warriors strive for
Gabriel: I just wonder what Dracula's up to
Lady of the forest: Your majesty Dracula and his minions have seized the island of Wallachia
Zobeck: Hmm...How can we help?
Lady of the forest: It is written that the pure heart of warrior will clam the lords of shadow as his own
Gabriel: Great! I'll grab my stuff!!
Lady of the forest: there is no time! Your whip is enough
Gabriel: How about a kiss for luck?
Marie: You've got to be kidding..
Lady of the forest: Squadi....err I mean we are off
Gabriel: WoW what are all those powerful people?
Lady of the forest: These are the lords of shadow, you must conquer each
Gabriel: I guess I better get going
Lady of the forest: Here is the MAP! Where do you wish to go?

[JR]

Sorry if this has already been speculated, but what if this takes place before Lament of Innocence? If it's in the Middle Ages, it could technically take place before LoI, right?

And I know this is kind of obvious (and probably dumb, too), but what if Konami is kind of testing the waters with this one to see if they should fit it in with IGA's timeline or disregard that timeline entirely?

The way I see it, Gabriel could possibly be a Belmont ancestor (which I'm sure has been speculated tons), and maybe he's fighting enemies who could later become minions of Dracula during his rise. This could go to further intertwine the Belmont clan with anything or anyone (later) associated with Dracula.

This could allow them to fit the Combat Cross into the storyline without altering the importance of the Vampire Killer, since it wouldn't have been around at this time, and Dracula wouldn't have, either.

So then, based on the reception of this game, Konami could either choose to integrate this into IGA's timeline, make it a standalone game, or just erase the timeline completely and continue from there.

Again, sorry if this has already been touched on, as this topic is huge. Just my two cents, I guess.

[GrantDaMummy]

I think "erasing the timeline" is somewhat harsh way of looking at things. I'd think more like Final Fantasy where two or more storylines exist. Think FF7 and perhaps FFX universes. In this case two sets of storylines. Perhaps Konami feels that original timeline is so packed, that it would feel forced to try to include anymore stories there, so they feel the next best thing is just create a new mythology. Something that can allow room for a new imagination and ideas to happen.

We don't know if this new series will even include Dracula, or will be even remotely connected to the Dracula mythos. It may be different than any previous castlevania in that it follows dark powers such as evil angels (lords of shadow are against heaven?) or what not. It may not even have anything to do with transylvania despite the "castlevania" name. In this case it would be a bit different than previous castlevania "gaidens" (sidestory, subseries, or whatever translation of the month) in that it doesn't even try to tie itself into the standard vampire hunters vs. Dracula storyline.

I guess its true its too early to tell what this "reboot", "rebirth", etc, whatever it is means.

[Reinhart77]

Yeah, if it is in the Middle Ages, then it is almost certain to take place in a period of time before Dracula declared war on humanity in the late 1400s.  Like DragonSlayr81 had mentioned, it would be great if this was a tale about other evil.  If the story is so disconnected from LoI and CVIII, then they could live side by side even if they weren't designed to be so.  Castlevania fans could write fan fiction and stuff that showed them to be in the same universe and such.

[A-Yty]

In Reply To #633

If that was Cox saying that, it does not improve the vibe I get about his interest in trying to catch the feel that made CV such a classic in the past. "Forget what you think you know about Castlevania" was bad enough already.

[GrantDaMummy]

In Reply To #637

That might work unless of course this game ends with world nearly destroyed by the "end of days". For all we know this game might actually be a kind of middle ages version of Hellgate:London. In that hell broke loose in the middle ages and has irrevocably changed the world in such a way that it won't even fit into a normal earth history. Its a pretty difficult for people to forget something as big as the end of the world.

The earlier castlevania games may not fit history exactly (how it fits around the real-life Dracula is of course sketchy), but they did try to fit on top of known world history, WW1 and WW2 for example were tied partially into the stories.

I suppose there is the possiblity of collective amnesia via magical means in order to wedge it into the other Castlevania storyline, but that would kind of undermine the epic potential of the story and telling of adventures in a post-apocalyptic medieval world.

[Beowulf]

im gonna be upset if this is not CASTLEVANIA, instead some game that stole the title and threw in a whip wielding hero. All i want in the game is Dracula, thats it, Dracula, i could care less if it has a belmont, death, alucard, or whatever (ok Alucard would be cool as hell but i dont see it happening till that other castlevania game is finished with production... but im starting to worry that is not happening now), i just want Dracula or something to do with him (like in lament of innocence, it didnt have "Dracula" it had who he really is, Mathias) if anything, let this known "Dracula" be how he become Dracula from Mathias, and how he obtained his name as him... cause we do need background info on Mathias, we were just left with a cliff hanger on LOI, so this maybe a good chance to know such a story. And I think if anything that mask is what will bring back Dracula if anything cause usually his sacrifices usually pertain women to bring him back to life, so yeah (other than Isaac in COD, but thats another story lol he was gay, and he had feminine characteristics XD kissed Trevor!) I dont know, just throwing out ideas of what I think

[DragonSlayr81]

Yeah. Gimme Dracula, gimme vampires, dark forces, skeletons, zombies, holy weapons, Eastern Europe backdrop and such. A game that might take some inspirations and monsters from worldy lore, but keeps the gothic/dark vampire hunting setting at the forfront. That's one of the major themes of the CV series(IGA's canon or non-canon, alike, ALL CV games had those setting themes).

If I wanted to play a traditional knight battling his way through fantasy and evil creatures, I'd opt for the Ghosts 'n Goblins/Maximo series over the CV series. If I wanted something taking place in the Greek age, I'd play more God of War(or Rygar). If I just wanted pointless monster bashing, I'd play Spatterhouse. Ninja demon killing? Ninja Gaiden and Shinobi. Setting is important to all these game series. As long as this one keeps that CV feel, despite a Belmont being present or not(I don't mind), it won't be a problem. But yeahy,  you can't turn your back on what made the series great. There's something really  epic about fighting Dracula, hell, vampire killing. 

[GrantDaMummy]

To me Castlevania has always been more about the gameplay, atmosphere, and rogues list of monsters, than the story. You could toss any old vampire lord, demonic entity, power-hungry human (Graham Jones) in the Castle's throne and I'd be happy. Just keep keep the dark gothic fantasy atmosphere, keep up the action, give me some good classic platform adventuring, and I'm happy.

Ya we haven't had good 3-d castlevania platforming or level design since the n64 game titles. Van Helsing had better Castlevania-like level design... and it wasn't even a Castlevania game. What was Van Helsing's team's budget btw? Compared to LoI and CoD? Because if Van Helsing had a comparable budget to what IGA's been getting, then he really had no excuse for his terrible level designs...

BTW, apparently a Graham Jones exists already[http://www.gjmi.org/aboutus.html]. Its only time before he tries to take over the world, heh heh.