Topic: I Critique the Perfect Game

[Valtiel]

I don't see how a console game could do better than a portable one. Sales wise. HD graphics is not a necessity, they just need to remake the sprites and all the assets for this to work (or use a different art style/direction), and release it multi-plataform. The next portables will have better graphics than this generation and greater fanbase than the actual one, I can't see the next CV 2D being released for the consoles as a full-disc game.

Portable vs home isn't a mere matter of graphics; screen size radically affects game design. Details are much harder to spot on a small screen, you can't achieve the same level of precision in controls or have the same range of level, platforming and combat design.

To explain it in a handful of words, on a 32" screen you can take your handheld game and make the main sprite 4 times as big and the onscreen area 7 times as large. The proportions chance the way you can design the game.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Bionic Commando Rearmed did it and it's a PS3/360 title.
I'm aware of how 'it works'.

I'm not talking sprites.  I'm talking 3D sidescroller with high quality graphics.

All the games I mentioned are home console games, not handhelds.

[Valtiel]

Bionic Commando Rearmed did it and it's a PS3/360 title.
I'm aware of how 'it works'.

I'm not talking sprites.  I'm talking 3D sidescroller with high quality graphics.

All the games I mentioned are home console games, not handhelds.

Oh I wasn't commenting on what you said.

I agree with you on that - while I would prefer a full 2D game with good art, a 2.5D CV game a la Bionic Command could work and work really well.

Bionic Commando Rearmed was also a commercial hit, so everything points in that direction.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Sorry, I made an error in my response (I thought you had commented on something I said).  Whoops!

But yeah, it seems that Harmony of Despair went with the 2D stock tiles/sprites in HD.  I'm not sure how it's selling, so I cannot comment on nit, but I know that ReArmed was damn awesome, and (so far) DKCR has the same awesomeness that the original SNES titles had, only now it's in glorious 3D instead of rotoscopic rendered sprites.

It's a very beautiful game, so I think the same can be applied to Castlevania.  DXC had some issues (low quality polygon models, very generic textures in some of the backgrounds, the fact that it was on PSP...) but was definitely heading in the right direction.  Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins, on the other hand, goes all out.

[DoctaMario]

+1 in agreement with you Beta. I'm glad that time is finally sorting out the SoTN issue of folks thinking it's the second coming of FF7 or whatever. It's a great game (definitely my favorite exploration based CV with a bullet) but in terms of over CV games, I feel like it's high-mid tier.

I preferred the voice acting (for Alucard anyway) in the PSP version, and if you play Luck Mode and let Dracula kill Richter (or at least deplete his energy completely) in the beginning battle, you'll get less status points which helps make the game a little more challenging, at least in the beginning. I agree with the Inverted Castle too. It might have been cooler if they'd just taken the regular castle and jumbled the areas around in one of 4 or 5 random configurations, which would play into Alucard's comment about it being a creature of chaos. Maybe some of the areas would be upside down but others would lead into completely different areas than they did in the regular castle. I don't think any game did the alternate castle thing as well as Harmony of DIssonance did though. THey made it kind of a Silent Hill-type thing, which was pretty cool.

Great game, but not better than Rondo, CV4, CV3...

[X]

The inverted castle should've been a completely new and different castle. The replay value from this would've been phenominal. And they should've had a wider selection of music for it too.

-X

[Munchy]

I don't get why if Sonic Colors can pull it off, Donkey Kong Country Returns can pull it off, Bionic Commando ReArmed can pull it off, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii can pull it off, Castlevania in 3D sidescrolling action with good graphics hasn't even been conceived.  DXC was the closest we got, but it was not on a TV (not really).

Seriously! Konami is dumb.

[Joachim]

To explain it in a handful of words, on a 32" screen you can take your handheld game and make the main sprite 4 times as big and the onscreen area 7 times as large. The proportions chance the way you can design the game.

relatively. symphony's resolution is actually not much bigger than portrait's, ecclesia's or dawn's; the graphics are simply scaled to fit the size of the screen. it appears larger. yes, this gives a little bit more leeway with pixel-hunting, and possibly darker colors, but it does not at all require the limitations that you're imposing upon it. essentially, you're describing contemporary trends in game design rather than an actual limitations.

if symphony of the night worked on the PSP then any comparable game would as well.

[X]

relatively. symphony's resolution is actually not much bigger than portrait's, ecclesia's or dawn's; the graphics are simply scaled to fit the size of the screen. it appears larger. yes, this gives a little bit more leeway with pixel-hunting, and possibly darker colors, but it does not at all require the limitations that you're imposing upon it. essentially, you're describing contemporary trends in game design rather than an actual limitations.

if symphony of the night worked on the PSP then any comparable game would as well.

True. The pixel ratio is not much different, but the DS screen is (though just as wide) isn't as tall as the TV ratio.

-X

[uzo]

SotN PS1	256 x 240
SNES	256 x 224
DS	256 x 192

Note: the PS1 has variable resolutions. SotN's menu screen is 368x240 while in game is 256x240. Megaman X4's in game resolution is 320x224 I believe. SotN's title screen is super wide, clocking in at 512x240. Megaman X6 also uses this resolution for the cutscenes with art and it's title screen. I believe Capcom fighters also use that, or a very similar resolution. When stretched to the TV's ratio it gives a higher detail. Capcom VS SNK Pro uses the highest available PS1 resolution, which is 640x480. They use it for their art gallery.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Also, although the in-game resolution for SotN is as UZO mentions it, there's a black bar at the top and the bottom of the screen, similar to the older CV titles.  If you cropped these pixels out, you can fit SotN on a DS's screen, methinks.

[uzo]

Oddly enough the visible area of the game, excluding the black bars is 256 x 207. Odd height... Either way, it's still too big.

[Joachim]

By a matter of 15 pixels, and you could just detract 7 from the top or bottom and 8 from the other. The difference is pretty much negligible.

[uzo]

Honestly, in some rooms it would cut the floor off. They cut things REALLY close in some rooms with those black borders, leaving only half floor tiles (8 pixels) visible. That'd be cut off by reducing the screen another 8 on top and bottom.

[Joachim]

I meant in the design process of the game itself (hypothetically speaking, of course), not in editing the game now that it has already been made.

there would be some differences, but most would be pretty damn minor, i think. the difference of 15 pixels isn't really the kind of difference that would cause the game to be dealt with in a completely different fashion; it wouldn't really necessitate a different approach or different graphics or anything like that (whereas if the game were designed in 320x240 or something else, maybe something weird like 512x240, it would necessitate some actual differences).

side note: i like the fact that sotn cut it pretty close with its floor tiles sometimes. the game was always good about not being formulaic with its layout and presentation. a stark contrast from the rectangles and boxes approach of the latter entries.