Topic: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)

[DragonSlayr81]

Even then, LoI just gave him a voice and small bit of personality. He was still sort of shallow. I never understood why Death serves whoever has the crimson stone. Whats in it for him? WHY did he serve Walter?
Lol. I see what you did there.

Death NEVER served Walter. That's a misconception that many picked(as well as believing Walter's "You betrayed me!!" was meant for Death, when it was ACTUALLY meant for Mathias). It didn't even state specificially that Death serves Mathias SOLELY because he wields the Crimson Stone(as IGA says, the Crimson Stone was just a means for Mathias to become immortal, and it becomes useless afterwards, yet Death still stays loyal to Dracula, even after Dracula's soul is born into Soma, and the Crimson Stone is forever gone). I think Mathias's alliance with Death was forged through some other means. He was just announcing that he was offering Walter's soul to the one who kept the Crimson Stone(which was Mathias). Walter could only stand at Death's threshold if he was widdled down by a powerful warrior who wielded the only means of harming such a vampire, the Vampire Killer. Death couldn't just kill Walter and give his soul to Mathias to become a powerful Vampire himself. Considering what Death is, and what vampires are, Death has no dominion over immortals(duh, they can't die).

As for Zobek being Death, I'd rather not. I never was fond of the idea that Death was once an actual human being. It's an idea that was tossed around in fanfic theories on this board before. To me, Death should always be death. A being the transcends creation, at the most, or at the least, I might be able to swallow Death only being human once if he was the FIRST human(Adam, or something), died and was offered the role to usher all of life to the netherworld. But Death being some knight? I can't swallow that. Death should be far more ancient than that. Original Death had the idea right(even appearing as some strange Death God in SotN, like that was what he was worshiped as by some ancient civilization). I can only swallow Zobek as being Lord of the Necromancers.

[Evil_Tim]

if he was widdled down by a powerful warrior

Oh christ now you're making me imagine Leon bursting in and peeing on Walter's leg.

[Flame]

Well it's certainly no lie that Leon pretty much pissed all over Walter!

[crisis]

I believe CVIII's manual (Japanese or American, don't remember which) stated that Dracula became who he is by making a pact with an evil deity/demon. Lament only filled in the blanks by making that spirit Death (although it could also be argued that CHAOS was responsible as well).


But as for why Death continues to remain loyal to Dracula..
don't you have any idea why a raven is like a writing desk?

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

As for Zobek being Death, I'd rather not. I never was fond of the idea that Death was once an actual human being. It's an idea that was tossed around in fanfic theories on this board before. To me, Death should always be death. A being the transcends creation, at the most, or at the least, I might be able to swallow Death only being human once if he was the FIRST human(Adam, or something), died and was offered the role to usher all of life to the netherworld. But Death being some knight? I can't swallow that. Death should be far more ancient than that. Original Death had the idea right(even appearing as some strange Death God in SotN, like that was what he was worshiped as by some ancient civilization). I can only swallow Zobek as being Lord of the Necromancers.

Hey flame THIS ^^^ sums up why i'm not a fan of the LOS Death.

Death once being a human is completely lame since he is supposed to be this being who's age and origin or unkown and yet so mysterious. Death is supposed to be just that.....DEATH which means he is supposed to be around since early creation of man. having him once human takes away all that makes Death what he is which is a being who has forever been far above that of pety mortals

[A-Yty]

But as for why Death continues to remain loyal to Dracula..
don't you have any idea why a raven is like a writing desk?

I'm guessing this is a reference to some classic play, book or movie I have yet to see, but I would like to know the answer  

Despite watering down the Judeo-Christian mythology of CV, I thought the Crimson Stone as a plot device was nice. Since the stone "chooses its owner", it isn't just some artifact any asshole vampire could find and claim. It chose Mathias as the right hand of chaos. And Death is understandably eager to serve someone like that. He obviously needs an agent/master like Dracula. If he was completely free to do anything, he wouldn't need to serve anyone.

And..I'm going to retract my statement about Zobek. I thought it was just another disposable persona for Death (like Zead), but it seems I was mistaken which makes it not so great

[Dominus]

Hopefully we'll get to see Rinaldo in the DLC (but they might butcher his "image" somehow, haha)

they could make Laura the new Justine

[le052383]

I have not beaten Lords yet (so I can be wrong here), but I have the belief that Pan is going to be Death since he has access to the dead world, showed Gabriel a flashback where he kills his wife and appeared with Gabriel killed that girl(I am thinking that Pan killed the girl to corrupt) and as an eagle, told Gabriel that he isn't helping him and is merely helping himself, which gives me an assumption that he is only helping Gabriel to further his own plan. Perhaps Pan wants to cause chaos so that he can get more souls for the underworld of something. PAn can also change his appearance so maybe Death is his true form. I would imagine Death working with Dracula not as a servent, but more as partners since it would benefit him somehow.

[darkwzrd4]

Here is my interpretation of everything:
LoI
Death only associates with the owner of the Crimson Stone because the owner is in essence the strongest immortal.  He only stays loyal to Dracula because Dracula's goal is the otter slaughter of mortals, thus giving Death plenty of souls to hunt.

LoS
Zobek is not Death.  He is just the Lord of the Necromancers.  As lord, he is the strongest one and being that necromancers have power over all dead entities, Zobek is also Lord of the Dead.  In this game, there is no one being called Death.  The closest things are the reapers fought in the Necromancer's Abyss and the Final Battle.  I also remember reading that necromancers may be able to manipulate them.

[Kingshango]

I've gone though the last few chapters of the game again and they're some scrolls(as well as Zobeks narration) that refer the lord of the necromancers as Death.

And going by all the posts about this manner, I can think of only two things:

1. Death has been reduced to a lesser enemy, thus becoming a complete weaking in this timeline.

2. There is no Death in this timeline at all.


My theory: Zobek>>Death>>>>Necromancers>>>>>>>Reapers

[le052383]

Can we knock it off with the spoilers?  Not to be mean but I haven't beat the game and found out from this topic that Zobek becomes the lord of nercomancers and the last boss is Death. I was hoping to see Dracula in LOS. We have another thread for spoilers

If you guys have to talk about spoilers here, please use the spoiler tags.  

[Flame]

well to be fair, this is a topic about story. Origin stories. In a topic like that, you should expect spoilers, since they are sometimes necessary to explain points.

[darkwzrd4]

I've gone though the last few chapters of the game again and they're some scrolls(as well as Zobeks narration) that refer the lord of the necromancers as Death.

And going by all the posts about this manner, I can think of only two things:

1. Death has been reduced to a lesser enemy, thus becoming a complete weaking in this timeline.

2. There is no Death in this timeline at all.


My theory: Zobek>>Death>>>>Necromancers>>>>>>>Reapers

No, there is no entity called Death.  The reapers in LoS are the physical manifestation of death in this game.  So, instead of having one supreme entity called Death, you have a bunch of lesser entities that represent it.  Also, those reapers aren't pushovers.  In a group, they can kill you in a number of seconds if you aren't careful.

[le052383]

well to be fair, this is a topic about story. Origin stories. In a topic like that, you should expect spoilers, since they are sometimes necessary to explain points.

While that might be true, I was thinking more of a brief comparsion between the two games as oppose to the thread to stray away and evolving into topic about about Zobek = Death because of a specific scene.  I wouldn't expect spoilers in here unless I mention spoilers in the heading.  Besides, if you guys have to mention spoilers, please use the spoiler tags.  I haven't beaten the game yet, which I made clear a few times (someone got the point in avoiding to mention spoilers here).  Remember that not everyone passed LOS yet since it is only a few months old and there are going to be someone here so wants a generic or brief comparsion of the two games.  I apologized for not being blunt the first time, so I changed the title to say to use spoilers tags.

[Joachim]

Zobek was actually manipulated by Satan, who is the final boss.