Topic: the Lament of Innocence origin story.....

[X]

In the CV universe, he was never Voivode of Transylvania and waged war against the Turks. Konami wanted him to be something more than what history gave us.

Konami never gave us the "Mathias is Dracula" origin. That was all IGA. What Konami DID give us was the classic Hammer films Dracula of the silver screen. A much better hardcore villain then Mathias IMO.

[crisis]

Last time I checked, IGA is an employee of Konami. So whatever IGA does, Konami does & vice-versa.
IGA can't go and start his own company and make a game starring Mathias, because Mathias is Konami property. Y'know, just like how Keiji Inafune can't make his own MegaMan games, since MM is Capcom property despite Inafune being the "father" of MM.


As with classic Hammer film Dracula, you're just talking visually. And he retained that look in Poultry of Ruin

[Lelygax]

 Wait, so thats why they did choose that name to CV Hammer?

[TheCruelAngel]

Crisis, you blew my mind. Bravo.

After your thorough, citated and just amazing response, I definitely see it as the way you and TheouAegis described. Just amazing.

Inccubus, I think one of the reasons I fancied Vlad cursing God and becoming Dracula is based on the notion of unfathomable loss. I take a lot of that interpretation with Coppula's Dracula and that it was his anger and sorrow was just so great he became one beyond God's and death's domain. So I definitely wasn't discounting that. And that's more to what I was referring to when I say I was a little disappointed to hear Dracula's origin is based more on a stone versus the culmination of his own personal anguish and sorrow (though it's still intrinsically tied together, so that's still awesome).

I never realized how much the accompanying text from the previous games really set up LoI to be a good birthplace to set into motion the creation of Dracula. Bravo to Iga for making that work yet keeping with his guns that Trevor dealt with Dracula first. Definitely a man who understood Castlevania's universe and how to work within it while adding his own flair.

Like I said in the disclaimer earlier, I haven't beaten LoI yet and these are my impressions from the information I've read here at the Dungeon, so thanks for being gentle.  Though maybe I'll go and boot it up and try playing it some more tonight...

[Sumac]

If you were to lose a loved one, be it significant other, child, etc. I wonder how YOU would react. You probably wouldn't go to work/school/wherever the next day, you'd be in an entirely different state of mind. Like Mathias.

With approach in mind, its ultimately makes Leon as insane as Mathias himself.

A couple of things that really disappointed me, from what I can remember, are that the Vampire Killer was just given to Leon by Rinaldo and the game didn't mention much about Matthias'/Dracula's and Death's first encounter.

That should have been somewhat discussed in the game. While the overall plot kind of works, this all "Mathias is culprit" thing comes of as rushed and out of nowhere in the actual game.

[uzo]

Well in my opinion they dont fight Dracula because of this, I think that the first kid of Leon trained because of that, but after they other descendents have forgotten why they do that and simple continues to fight monsters,

That is incorrect I believe. Juste Belmont vaguely mentions the events of LoI in passing. Likely a lead up hint for the LoI/AoS production plan.

[Lelygax]

That is incorrect I believe. Juste Belmont vaguely mentions the events of LoI in passing. Likely a lead up hint for the LoI/AoS production plan.

Seriously? So I must have overlooked that. can you show us this dialogue please? Because Im really curous about that now, I've played this game various times, but I think that maybe I stopped to give attention to the text without noticing that.

[crisis]

Inccubus, I think one of the reasons I fancied Vlad cursing God and becoming Dracula is based on the notion of unfathomable loss. I take a lot of that interpretation with Coppula's Dracula and that it was his anger and sorrow was just so great he became one beyond God's and death's domain. So I definitely wasn't discounting that. And that's more to what I was referring to when I say I was a little disappointed to hear Dracula's origin is based more on a stone versus the culmination of his own personal anguish and sorrow (though it's still intrinsically tied together, so that's still awesome).

Yeah, I like Dracula's origin in the Coppola movie, too (which coincidentally has parallels with Lament. I gotta feeling IGA's a fan as well)

Bram Stoker's Dracula - Prologue (extended)

[X]

       ^^^
Now THAT is much better Dracula origin then LoI's was. Far more powerful in delivery and not needing any alchemical stones to acquire the power either. Dracula did it all on his own. and that extended scene adds more clear dialog too. Good find.

[GuyStarwind]

I love the LoI story. I personally feel it's one of the better CV stories. I will say some of the more important info is (to quote a trope) "all in the manual" but I feel it's one of those CV games that the title fits perfectly with the events of the game. Let's face it every character in the game is an innocent lamenting over someone or something.

[Lelygax]

Let's face it every character in the game is an innocent lamenting over someone or something.

Everyone except Mathias, he is only lamenting, but not innocently since the others are just pawns playing in his game.

[TheouAegis]

On the topic of Belmonts having "speical powers", I don't think Akumajou Densetsu specifically states they have a special power. Not just keeping in line with the Church conspiracy theory (see my post about Dracula's alchemy), but in general practice, if the Belmonts were performing exorcisms and vampire slayings without the Church's consent, they were heretics and would have be excommunicated. And if the Vatican's army and any other army for that matter was unable to defeat vampires and demons with the apparent ease that the Belmonts had, then rumors would spread that the clan has special powers, when really they were just good at what they did. It's like glorifying and aggrandizing the Spartans, or how magicians were once believed to be in league with Satan.

[Inccubus]

Yeah, I like Dracula's origin in the Coppola movie, too (which coincidentally has parallels with Lament. I gotta feeling IGA's a fan as well)

Bram Stoker's Dracula - Prologue (extended)

Holy shit, awesome! Never knew there was an extended version of that scene. I think that would fit CV as an origin story a hell of a lot better than how it was executed in LoI. Not dissing LoI, but I think they tried to do too much in that one game and kind of softened Dracula's character too much. I think it would have been better to have done LoI exclusively as an origin for the Vampire Killer & how the Belmonts became vampire hunters. Then they could have followed up with a remake of CV3 that expands the story to include a flashback of Dracula's established theatrical origin. It would have been epic, and it could have been worked into the story without much issue at all.

[TheouAegis]

Back on the issue of Leon's story...

Where did the other Belmont hunters come from? Who was Trevor's great-great-great-great-great-grandfather? And who was his grandfather? And the grandfather of him? If they were all descendants of Leon, then who was Leon's wife? Or did he birth a child out of wedlock? It's 99% certain that Sara wasn't the mother of his children.

And where does LoI take place, even? It's easy enough to say it takes place in England because Leon's surname is Belmont, but as has been argued time and again, that's the European/US version and in the original Japanese version it's Belmonde, suggesting France. Trantoul is French, so that lends credence to the France origin. Buuut. Mathias and his wife are of Swedish descent. Walter and Joachim are German. Rinaldo is either Italian or Italian-German (or German-Italian). The German possibility of Rinaldo would make sense because it kinda explains why he's familiar with Walter. HOWEVER, Rinaldo's daughter has a French name. So it makes things confusing. I'm leaning toward French origin story where a German vampire invaded (Germans love invading France, so it makes sense) France and a French knight stopped him.

[GuyStarwind]

Everyone except Mathias, he is only lamenting, but not innocently since the others are just pawns playing in his game.

I would say he was innocent at the start(before the game starts) when his wife died but during the events of LoI he wasn't so innocent.