Topic: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

[Weiss Belmont]

Its not so much about that as it is about the fact that a series that once had innovation and change on consoles, was relegated to asset reuse on handhelds. I have nothing against handheldvania. But the series was condemned to it after the N64 games. We only got 2 new console games, and 1 2D CV remake. (not counting Judgement, which was a fighting game) That, and IGA had just run his course. it was only IGA, and not all of his stuff was good. (hes terrible at sequel plots) maybe it's just me, but I wanted some change. i wanted SOMETHING big, and for me, LoS delivered. Sure, it was super hyped as Dracula vs Belmont, and that was a like, but I liked the change it brought. fresh blood, different vision, and no holds barred. it was top notch quality visually, and gameplaywise. (opinion, mind you)

I'll concede to that.

As much as we all like to say that in anger at Capcom, I'm very sure that was not the main reason. inafune was in a high enough position and respected enough that he could push for these games. And by his own admission, would often go over budget on prorotypes, so as to force Capcom to push it to development. Mega Man has not always sold well. And part of the problem is it never changed. It's to be admired that it lasted so long with very little change, but that doesnt last. And their 3D attempts have never succeeded. X7 was a bomb, (Command Mission im unsure of, but it was not a standard X game, being an RPG) and the Legends series Inafune recalls putting Capcom in the red, explaining why there was never a Legends 3.

Oh really? So Capcom finds enough money to make three different versions of Street Fighter IV, make two versions of Marvel Versus Capcom 3, and despite how shitty recent RE titles have been they keep selling better and better. But budget constraints are to blame for the Blue Bomber's death. Hmmmm

Four?

Mega Man Legends 3,
Mega man Universe,
Mega Man Online.

What's the fourth?

Maverick Hunter
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/04/10/capcom-canceled-maverick-hunter-mega-man-first-person-shooter-fps-video/

And all 3 of them had other factors.

Legends 3: was Inafune's project, and he was pushing it. Capcom never wanted it, because the original 2 never sold well.

Mega man Universe?: had a bad reception when it was shown at conventions.

Online: was Korea exclusive, and was coincidentally caught up in neowiz restructuring to concentrate on phone games, cutting their online game department severely.

No argument there, lol.

Odd. Because according to the article by Polygon, Capcom was ready to greenlight at least two of these projects but when Inafune left they cancelled all four of them. It's all there.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/9/4179628/mega-man-fps-maverick-hunter

Capcom has great folks working in it and for it.

Lol no they don't. You think a company that has great folks working for it could squeeze out an abortion like SF x T?

mega man needs something like loS, (not necessarily a reboot, although making a clean break without all that backlog of story wouldnt hurt) a big budget, well made 3D game.

Mega Man needs Miyamoto. Yes people I'm sorry but I went there.

[Flame]

I'd rather give Mega Man to Inti Creates.

Inti Creates is made of former Capcom Employees, many of whom worked on Mega Man games. (Inti also made the Zero series, the ZX series, and MM 9 and 10) Those guys know what they are doing. they LOVE story and continuity, and they really GET what makes Mega Man work.

I don't really approve of Nintendo getting Mega Man. they have issues too. They whore out Mario and LoZ, (and Pokemon) but leave other series forgotten. Like Starfox, or Metroid.

Oh really? So Capcom finds enough money to make three different versions of Street Fighter IV, make two versions of Marvel Versus Capcom 3, and despite how shitty recent RE titles have been they keep selling better and better. But budget constraints are to blame for the Blue Bomber's death. Hmmmm

Fun fact: SF:IV was an unwanted product within Capcom right up until release, where it turns out it was actually a hit, and Capcom was quick to scoop it up and suddenly give it love. Ono recalls people always asking him why he was working on an unprofitable game like Street fighter 4, and why he wasnt working on something better.

Not budget constraints. Bad sales.

Also, Maverick Hunter was way before any of the other 3. It was started and cancelled back in 2010. It doesn't really count in the same basket as the other 3. And it's reason for cancellation is understandable, although I'm sure it would have done fine. Because they felt it might alienate the players by being too different.

Odd. Because according to the article by Polygon, Capcom was ready to greenlight at least two of these projects but when Inafune left they cancelled all four of them. It's all there.

Legends 3 was never actually greenlit, it was just an open prototype. most similar prototypes are simply never seen by the public. But this one adopted a transparent dev process, which I guess Inafune hoped would make it harder to cancel.

Universe similarly, was still in the works, and would not have been out for a while. We can't say if it was greenlit or not.

Online was in development, It was already greenlit. And was scrapped by Capcom after neowiz restructured and dropped it.

[Trevor Belmondo]

let me put it in perspective since you can't seem to understand over your frothing rage.

if it does not sell, it can not survive. back in the day, nes games were cheaper ti make. so despite mm1 not selling well, inafune and co. were allowed to work on 2 on the side in their free time. from there, it was a hit. its not about mainstream. cv was once mainstream. devs are influenced by current gaming trends. if they like it, they will incorporate similar.
 I would not. I was tired of IGA. I was tired of his practices and bad habits. I was kind of tired of metroidvania. the recent outings seemed uninspired to me, and I saw LoS as a breath of fresh air. I loced it. It was like a classicvania pulled into the modern day to me.

also you need to calm yourself. you are ridiculously  overreacting, and its hard to take seriously.

and stop claiming opinion as fact. it is not dspicable or a travesty. why? because that's just your opinion.

I need to "calm" myself?
So you can't handle a "bad word" (oh no, call the principle) or someone else's opinion unless it aligns with yours?

What are you in high school still?

Let me explain to you how the real world works kiddo.
In the real world, everyone's not going to agree with you.
In fact, most people are going to flat out DISagree with you at almost every turn.
(Well maybe not on your Face Book. Not that i dabble in that mindlessness.)
It's called "free will", an "opinion" and/or "agreeing to disagree".

I am simply standing up for my opinion.

If that's "frothing rage" to you, the real thing will make you piss your pants.

That's life. Better get used to it.

[Flame]

Let me explain to you how the real world works kiddo.

stopped reading there.
looks like you don't get it.


I present you with a rational explanation and advise you to not take a VIDEOGAME so damn seriously, and you respond with this kind of juvenile (and still quite mad) retort.

Yet I'M the kid, right?

[Ahasverus]

stuff

So you come to our discussion forums to give life lessons and disrespect one of our most active members just because his views are different to yours?

Go back to the real world, kiddo.

[A-Yty]

Disrespect?

WELL, after nearly 12 years of being a member of THE CASTLEVANIA DUNGEON FORUMS I'm apparently a veteran or perhaps an elder god. I want you all to kneel down and kiss my ring, puny young worms. Get your butts to the ground before I whip you with my scepter.




..as I tell you that respecting anyone based on how long or active he has been in participating in Internet discussion forums is pretty much horseshit. It's the kind of thing that makes forums repulsive. That and junior moderating *cough*MGSforums.com*cough*

[Successor The Cruel]

Maybe I'm the only one, but that's exactly what I'd like to get.
That, and music that sounds like Michiru Yamane.
I'm not trying to start a discussion here, you are cool Flame.
I just love MetroidVanias, and you mentioned some things I like about them.

Heheh. Just chiming in to say how charming I think that bold text within the quote is : p
Not at all in a bad way, of course : D

[Weiss Belmont]

..as I tell you that respecting anyone based on how long or active he has been in participating in Internet discussion forums is pretty much horseshit. It's the kind of thing that makes forums repulsive.

Testify!!!

Much like MGSforums, the "older" members on this board tend to have their heads so far up their asses they should start having their mail delivered to their colon.

Look at me I've got +400 respect and 1,000+ posts. Real badasses in this bitch. Being "most active" on a forum just means you don't have an actual life, because people with jobs, school, and y'know girlfriends don't have the freetime to rack up 20+ posts a day like many of you. Bottom line is you have all at one point proved yourselves to be assholes. Same goes for me. So let's get back to the topic.

The major issue, the one key point you have all clusterfucked since this topic began is the simple conclusion that Cox is a douche. He is not the savior of Castlevania and he did not prevent the series from becoming another Mega Man.

1) Castlevania was never in the kind of danger to need "saving".

2) Mega Man as a franchise was doing fine until the higher-ups at Capcom got their panties in a bunch over Inafune's departure.

3) If, IF Castlevania was in any real danger of dying, Konami would have given the reins entirely to Kojima, not Cox.

4) He's an egomaniac who is his own biggest fan. EOD

[Successor The Cruel]

I agree about the whole "Castlevania was not going" to die thing. I don't know why people jump to that dramatic conclusion. Sure it could have been better, but Castlevania was coming out consistently and making money for Konami, and therefore had a decent enough presence. And while some were becoming apathetic to it, the only games that were thought of to be real failures among general consensus were the 3D ones.

Considering the constraints on budget and development time, teamed with poor advertising, Konami got what they deserved from it. Maybe they wanted some kind of miracle where they only spend one week and fifty dollars and somehow make three million? I believe the faults with Castlevania pre-LoS --including game design and sales-- primarily fall on Konami, not IGA and his team. I'm certainly not saying IGA and co are perfect, as some of their ideas were just bad (DoS' and PoR's art direction, for example), but they clearly had very limited time and resources, and that was reflecting upon the quality of the games. Games like AoS and OoE show that they're capable of making very good games, but when pushed to meet such demands under the conditions they were in, it's no surprise that they buckled here and there.

[Weiss Belmont]

I'd rather give Mega Man to Inti Creates.

Inti Creates is made of former Capcom Employees, many of whom worked on Mega Man games. (Inti also made the Zero series, the ZX series, and MM 9 and 10) Those guys know what they are doing. they LOVE story and continuity, and they really GET what makes Mega Man work.

Good point.

I don't really approve of Nintendo getting Mega Man. they have issues too. They whore out Mario and LoZ, (and Pokemon) but leave other series forgotten. Like Starfox, or Metroid.

How dare you sir?! Everyone knows that Miyamotomania is running wild brother! And I'll tell you something else dude, Nintendo is going to win the console war. XD

Fun fact: SF:IV was an unwanted product within Capcom right up until release, where it turns out it was actually a hit, and Capcom was quick to scoop it up and suddenly give it love. Ono recalls people always asking him why he was working on an unprofitable game like Street fighter 4, and why he wasnt working on something better.

Everyone knows that Street Fighter puts balls to the walls. Even Capcom knows it. I'm sure that even internally they get tired of SF about as much as Squenix gets tired of FF, but the fact is they know it's going to sell. They milked SF2, they milked SF3, they milked the Alpha series until the poor thing was dry. They knew long before they even started work on SF4 that it was going to be a blockbuster.

Also, Maverick Hunter was way before any of the other 3. It was started and cancelled back in 2010. It doesn't really count in the same basket as the other 3. And it's reason for cancellation is understandable, although I'm sure it would have done fine. Because they felt it might alienate the players by being too different.

I'll concede.

Legends 3 was never actually greenlit, it was just an open prototype. most similar prototypes are simply never seen by the public. But this one adopted a transparent dev process, which I guess Inafune hoped would make it harder to cancel.

Despite massive public interest Capcom cancelled the game because according to them, gamers weren't interested. 

[Weiss Belmont]

I agree about the whole "Castlevania was not going" to die thing. I don't know why people jump to that dramatic conclusion.

Because they hang out on forums all day, read GI, and visit IGN. Ladies and gentlemen, I present the "fans."

Sure it could have been better, but Castlevania was coming out consistently and making money for Konami, and therefore had a decent enough presence. And while some were becoming apathetic to it, the only games that were thought of to be real failures among general consensus were the 3D ones.

Everything you have said is true my man. There were so many Castlevania games released for the handhelds I felt like I was missing out and indeed I still am. As far as Castlevania goes 3DS is where it's at. Some might say that's because there isn't a big push for console ports. No, no of course not. Because Castlevania sells more on the handhelds and if you couple that with cheaper development costs it's a win-win for Konami.

Considering the constraints on budget and development time, teamed with poor advertising, Konami got what they deserved from it. Maybe they wanted some kind of miracle where they only spend one week and fifty dollars and somehow make three million? I believe the faults with Castlevania pre-LoS --including game design and sales-- primarily fall on Konami, not IGA and his team. I'm certainly not saying IGA and co are perfect, as some of their ideas were just bad (DoS' and PoR's art direction, for example), but they clearly had very limited time and resources, and that was reflecting upon the quality of the games.

You're exactly right. It's like when Squenix bitched about sales for Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs. Both games did well but could have done much better if they had some actual marketing power behind it. Konami focuses all its attention on Metal Gear and typically forgets they even have a Castlevania in the works until what, a month before release. Case in point, we know more about both Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain than we do of Lords of Shadow 2. THAT's fucked up.

[Nagumo]

Hmmm, not to be sound like I'm pointing this out just to be annoying, but I don't think the part about IGA not having enough budget is true:

Iga: I would definitely like to develop still more Castlevania games for the DS platform! For the US market, though, the retail price on DS games are traditionally very low - $30, maybe $40 if the game card itself has a larger capacity. The development costs for Castlevania do tend to be higher than average for a DS game, so it's hard to get some concepts for the series approved. I love the DS and want to continue work on it, but I'm not sure if it's the best option from a pure business standpoint.

I still agree that Konami tended to neglect Castlevania in other ways but it's important to put things in perspective.

[A-Yty]

I don't think Castlevania was dying in the sense that it was about to cease completely. It just wasn't living up to Konami's expectations. They wanted to turn it bigger.

I think the series needs revitalizing. Just not to the extent and in the way LoS does it. The state CV was/is, wasn't primarily because of Castlevania's contents, as Konami seems to think. It was also because they have neglected the series for so long. It's not..

1. This game doesn't have QTEs and a non-melodic soundtrack. That must be the reason we don't have tennis courts in our new yachts!

..as much as it was

2. Guys, I feel like I've forgotten something. It's like 25 years ago something happened. It had to do something with meat inside walls or shit like that. I don't know. How are we doing with that next Metal Gear? Castlevania, you say? I don't know. Churn out something for the portables. You know where those sprites are, right? Use them.

 I like to think of LoS as unnecessary electro-shock CPR that puts the patient in a coma. When he wakes up, I hope he remembers his relatives, motor functions and recuperates fast and effectively.

[Successor The Cruel]

I do recall in an interview IGA did for DoS (I believe), he said that his team had to rip older enemies from SotN and Rondo due to either lack of money or lack of time, so something was certainly not right over there.

Well, we can't say exactly what their budget was, but we can gauge their dev time based upon the intervals these games came out at, and it was rather low. Much lower than the MS games.

[crisis]

Bottom line is you have all at one point proved yourselves to be assholes.

I wear my badge proudly.