Topic: Are the terms "Classicvania" and "Metroidvania" insanely retarded?

[Abnormal Freak]

So the more I see these terms on this board, the more I cringe.

Granted, I've used them plenty of times myself, and it's an easy way to distinguish between the two styles of gaming in the 2D series. But there's gotta be a better way to succinctly refer to either side without using these cheesedick terms, y'know?

Or just stop differentiating, I suppose.

[Ratty]

I like the terms, but even if I didn't I would find the use of retarded in this thread title much more distasteful.

Granted, I've used them plenty of times myself, and it's an easy way to distinguish between the two styles of gaming in the 2D series. But there's gotta be a better way to succinctly refer to either side without using these cheesedick terms, y'know?

Or just stop differentiating, I suppose.

We need to distinguish between them because as I mentioned in this thread they are totally different styles of games with very different sets of merits to consider. You and I may be fans of both but there are many out there who are exclusively (or very heavily) interested in only one or the other. And the terms "Metroidvania" and "Classicvania" appear to be the quickest, easiest way to clarify which set of games in this very long series are being discussed. "Metroidvania" is the more longstanding and established and seems to be the generally accepted term for this particular style/genre of exploration adventure game even outside the Castlevania fandom, no real chance of changing that. I think "Classicvania" is an elegant term to describe the dominant early playstyle of the series, since the majority of games in this mold date to before the stylistic and mechanical renaissance begun with SOTN.

[Abnormal Freak]

I like the terms, but even if I didn't I would find the use of retarded in this thread title much more distasteful.

Ultra-PC Ratty strikes again!

[Ratty]

Ultra-PC Ratty strikes again!

It's not about politics, it's about dignity and respect. When I see people complain about "political correctness" 9 times out of 10 it's because they're upset they had to take into consideration the feelings and viewpoints of groups other than their own.

I am absolutely in favor of freedom of expression and speech, but that freedom does not mean all speech is exempt from criticism or disagreement, quite the opposite. But I personally find that we get more done as a species when we talk to rather than at or past each other. An open mind costs nothing, and we all need to share this world.

[X]

So the more I see these terms on this board, the more I cringe.

There are some things in life that make me cringe too. However that is all in the mind. The best way to combat this is to simple just let it be. And as you are already aware of, 'Classicvania' is used to describe the CV series games that play like the original Castlevania does. 'Metroidvania, 'Metrovania' or 'Casltetroid' (however many terms there are) is used to describe the none-liner Castlevania games that play like Metroid. Things like this don't make me cringe because I understand that they are sort-term descriptions used to describe the specific genre of CV game in the sort-term without making them into a long-winded sentence. It's like internet lingo; LMAO (laughing My Ass Off) or LOL (Laugh Out Loud).

[Lelygax]

So use "level-to-level" and "exploration" instead

[Pfil]

I don't agree with the terms, especially MetroidVania. And ClassicVania as a term is just a derivative result from the existence of the MetroidVania term.
But that's the way things are, and once the terms are already installed on the fanbase vocabulary, no other means of referring the games would change a thing.
So I just go along and use them, as everyone else, in order to be understood.

[GuyStarwind]

I'm fine with the terms. It could be because I'm just use to them.

[beingthehero]

While the origins of the term Metroidvania have been lost to time, you can actually blame me for coining Classicvania on Gamefaqs around 2005-ish when Dawn and Curse came out. I used it at the time to make fun of the term Metroidvania, since I said something along the lines of "if we're going to dumbly divide the games in the series as though anything past 1997 wasn't 'real' Castlevania, then we might as well call every game that plays like CV1 "Classicvania", CVII as "Questvania", Belmont's Revenge as "Megavania", etc. And then people started to use it in non-ironic ways. (i used to be a big douche back then)

It's actually really weird to see a meme of sorts of your own creation become and established fan thing.

Anyways Metroidvania isn't anywhere near as retarded as "Igavania."

[Abnormal Freak]

The old games tend to be almost completely linear—a few branching paths don't really change that.

The newer ones are quite nonlinear.

I think it's pretty easy to call them linear and nonlinear Castlevania games if the distinction needs to be made.

[Ratty]

The old games tend to be almost completely linear—a few branching paths don't really change that.

The newer ones are quite nonlinear.

I think it's pretty easy to call them linear and nonlinear Castlevania games if the distinction needs to be made.

But there are not entirely linear Classicvania games. If I'm discussing games don't want to have to clarify in a conversation "No I just mean the REALLY non-linear ones" when I can just say one word, "Metroidvania", and be done with it. I think for the sake of clarity and simplicity using the already accepted and in place terms is best.

[Lelygax]

Thats why "level-to level" and "exploration-focused" can be used instead. I still prefer Metroidvania because its already common and I like wacky names for some things. ("Gabula" still sounds strange to me)

[Pfil]

Yes, but you can't put Simon's Quest or Vampire Killer in the same group of the 7 MetroidVania and the 2 3D MetroidVania, which we all know what games they are.
Also, there's middle ground that leads to confusion. Vampire Killer is based on exploration but is also a level-to-level game. And Rondo of Blood is level-to-level but allows you to backtrack anytime you choose a level, and features a game percentage display. Nevertheless, it is part of the ClassicVania in the popular vocabulary.
And the Lords of Shadow games (1 and 2) feature similar characteristics to Rondo (in terms of always allowing stage selection and having a percentage display). Mirror of Fate could be a MetroidVania, but it's lacking several things from what everyone knows that must be in a MetroidVania.
Long story short, we call MetroidVania these games: SotN, CotM, HoD, AoS, DoS, PoR, OoE... CoD and LoI in 3D.
And ClassicVania to everything else, with the exception of the MS games which are self-contained, and the alternative games (1 cell phone game, 3 Pachislots, Arcade game, a fighter and a multiplayer).
That's how I see it and I believe it's pretty accurate.

[A-Yty]

Metroidvania? Yeah.
Classicvania? Nope.

Classicvania is a pretty accurate nickname - even though VK and SQ deviate from it to a degree. There's a whole bunch of Vanias that have those characteristics. Time limit, stage structure etc. But you can also slump together all Vanias made before SotN as Classicvanias. Just have Classivanias have two different categories.

VK & SQ = NeoClassicVanias? "ProtoDroidVanias?"

Ok, those actually are silly. Perhaps "FreeroamVanias" or something like that.

[A-Yty]

While the origins of the term Metroidvania have been lost to time, you can actually blame me for coining Classicvania on Gamefaqs around 2005-ish when Dawn and Curse came out.

Never read that and I still used Classicvania, you damn snake oil salesman you! 

Seriously, it's a very natural thing to call dem Vanias, so I'd say lots of people referred to them by that name. Nickname Vanias starting with "C" come to mind easily