Topic: Government Shutdown

[Mooning Freddy]

Dear Republicans and Democrats, please stop playing chicken over the future of America. Goddamit.

Many thanks, Americans and the rest of the world. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/16/us-government-shutdown-republicans-pull-out-of-deal-at-last-minute

[Infinite Resignation]

Ah politics, the great divider!

Yeah, it's pretty sad what's happening. Sometimes though, something bad has to happen before people can wake up to address it. It would be a mistake for me to call it black & white, but my sympathies lie more with the Democrats.

The majority of voters in the US don't side with either party so much as decide on a case by case basis who they prefer. The cycle of popularity/power recently shifted back over to Democrats, and as a result the Republicans are scrambling to influence things any way they can. Pure Government to me should not be influenced by money, power, religion, or even individual ideology, but should be about service first and foremost, in service of the people- hopefully the majority. Of course the practical reality is another story, but public perception has been that the Republican party is more self-interested. I personally believe they miscalculated there position, the Democrats won't budge either and so now people are basically suffering for it.

I think Health Care Reform was something this country very badly needed, and for better or worse it's now the law. I think pissing about over it is a mistake. No, it's  not perfect and there has been and will continue to be growing pains, but to not allow it to succeed would be a mistake. On one level I can't blame them since Obama basically represents everything their against, but I guess the real question is, which party should bend?

[Intersection]

This is very dangerous ground to tread on. Politics doesn't really have its place in a gaming forum, especially not in a time like this.
Neither party is innocent here, and the matter is far more complicated than it seems. I'm worried that this topic will degenerate into the aimless political hostility I've seen in so many other discussions.
So unless we can all muster a certain level of objectivity and restraint, I suggest we end this topic here.

[X]

This is very dangerous ground to tread on. Politics doesn't really have its place in a gaming forum, especially not in a time like this.
Neither party is innocent here, and the matter is far more complicated than it seems. I'm worried that this topic will degenerate into the aimless political hostility I've seen in so many other discussions.
So unless we can all muster a certain level of objectivity and restraint, I suggest we end this topic here.

I guess you haven't been here long enough to know that we've had these discussions before and unlike other net forums we have pretty much maintained our cool and made it through unscathed. There are several Americans here on the forums that don't like what America has become and where it's going. So they understand well enough to sympathize with others feelings on the matter.

In terms of politics I do not believe they have any place what-so-ever in a governmental system. It's a waste of time, energy, money, resources, effort, etc. It only slows things down and in other cases, prevents things form getting done. No good can ever truly come out of politics.

[Intersection]

I guess you haven't been here long enough to know that we've had these discussions before and unlike other net forums we have pretty much maintained our cool and made it through unscathed. There are several Americans here on the forums that don't like what America has become and where it's going. So they understand well enough to sympathize with others feelings on the matter.

I only used to consult the forums on CV-related topics. So I hadn't yet been privy to any political debates, at least not until recently.
But hey -- this a fascinating subject to discuss, if it's handled correctly. So, if we can manage to do that, then I have no objections.

In terms of politics I do not believe they have any place what-so-ever in a governmental system. It's a waste of time, energy, money, resources, effort, etc. It only slows things down and in other cases, prevents things form getting done. No good can ever truly come out of politics.

Well... It all depends on what you mean by "politics".
If you take it rigorously, by the way, politics is at the very heart of a government -- it literally signifies "the art of running a city".

[Mooning Freddy]

I only used to consult the forums on CV-related topics. So I hadn't yet been privy to any political debates, at least not until recently.
But hey -- this a fascinating subject to discuss, if it's handled correctly. So, if we can manage to do that, then I have no objections.

X is correct. As long as we respect each others' opinions, there's no reason to avoid political debates. We had those before and as long as people don't get "anal" about it, it's fine.

Well... It all depends on what you mean by "politics".
If you take it rigorously, by the way, politics is at the very heart of a government -- it literally signifies "the art of running a city".

Yep. Everything is politics. The reason why the words "politics" and "policy" are similar is because they're the same. Politicians are people who decide on policy. You may hate politics, but it's not unnatural. As long as there's decisions to be made there would be politics, big ones or smaller ones.

As for my opinion, I think the republicans are being huge you-know-what. Perhaps I would have had a different opinion if the issue wasn't healthcare. The health insurance reform is Obama's biggest card. It is possibly the biggest issue he was elected for, and the one concerning the greatest number of Americans. And it's the tea party kids who keep blowing a resolution up. But the way they're playing chicken by postponing the debt ceiling is simply incredible.

[Intersection]

Well, a deal has finally been made. If the proposed plan manages to pass tonight, we'll see a provisional end to the government shutdown. For now, it's just a waiting game for us.

As for my opinion, I think the republicans are being huge you-know-what. Perhaps I would have had a different opinion if the issue wasn't healthcare. The health insurance reform is Obama's biggest card. It is possibly the biggest issue he was elected for, and the one concerning the greatest number of Americans. And it's the tea party kids who keep blowing a resolution up. But the way they're playing chicken by postponing the debt ceiling is simply incredible.

But that's the whole point -- it isn't as simple as you're making it out. Republicans aren't just being "you-know-whats"; they're in an exceedingly difficult situation. Under pressure both from their own party and from their Democratic opponents, they simply didn't have a choice but to stall; they risk losing their credibility as a party, as well as their only remaining leverage, once the debt threat disappears. But time has turned against them, and the Democrats know it; they've used the perceived incongruity of the situation to devastating effect. "Why are Republicans stalling," they ask, "while the nation's economy is at risk?" And most of us are buying it. Yet they have their own considerable role in this lockdown; Democrats have practically refused to consider some of their opponents' most pressing demands, knowing full well that they have the political advantage, and that they'll be able to evade blame.
The way things were going, the resolution we're now seeing was almost inevitable.

[Shiroi Koumori]

February 7, 2014... we shall wait when that day nears and another saga would happen.

This is really crazy. It is not just the US that is affected, it's the entire world (some countries more than others).

[Infinite Resignation]

Intersection, your totally right that discussing politics is dangerous, it's why governments monitor and try to control the internet and why those who question the status-quo are considered un-American or nut-cases.

Also, you and I both have said that it's not a simple black and white issue. I mean, the same post that I state "Individual ideology bad", I say "but the Republicans... blah blah blah", which is funny because part of the problem is the whole two party system, or rather those involved have made it about that- which is a mistake, and I think you'll agree too, because the issues are more important then the parties involved. Guess it's easy to get caught up in that.

I think when it actually works, the old party rhetoric is forgotten. People on both 'sides' have seen past this and have tried to work apart from it. It's what Obama was trying for when he first got into office, looking past party affiliation and just trying to make policy actually happen. I mean I'm not even for one party or the other and I have to say I'm starting to see where a two party system can be pretty d*mn limiting. It's just more 'us versus them' B.S., and it simply gets in the way of real issues and progress.