Topic: the Alucard-Lecarde connection

[crisis]

i remember back in the day fans would speculate how Eric from bloodlines was supposedly descended from alucard, perhaps from the offspring of alucard and Maria
but thats prolly not true at all (just like alucard+sonia). however what we do know is  that Eric wields the "Alucard Spiear" (commonly mistranslated as "Alcarde Spear") it is said that alucard created it to "compliment the power of the Vampire Killer" but uhm what does this mean exactly?

and why give it to Eric? and why did he suddenly decide to create it in the first place? when exactly did he create it? why werent the Lecardes part of the Battle of 1999?

[Mike Belmont]

I though that effectively Eric was descendant of the relation Alucard-Maria. I though that its was official.

I remember that the spear was created in the time that the Vampire Killer were off scene, to protect humanity, or something like that. In Portrait of Ruin says more about all this, isn´t? I played the game years ago, so I need to play it again to remember tha story... or read it in the Wikia

[X]

I remember that the spear was created in the time that the Vampire Killer were off scene, to protect humanity, or something like that. In Portrait of Ruin says more about all this, isn´t?

It's somewhat mentioned in PoR, but like a lot of IGA's other game stories it's very ambiguous and does very little to shed light on the connection. They had a chance to explain the connection, but to no avail it never happened.

[Shiroi Koumori]

It's somewhat mentioned in PoR, but like a lot of IGA's other game stories it's very ambiguous and does very little to shed light on the connection. They had a chance to explain the connection, but to no avail it never happened.

I suppose it was meant to be that way. "Think of it as you want it to be" type of stuff that is common in mystery Japanese movies.

[zangetsu468]

In POR it's revealed that the Lecardes via their bloodline are the only ones who are needed to open the dimension by which the Morris clan are able to do battle with the VK's memory. The Morris' must undergo this and defeat the memory (in the form of the previous Belmont who wielded the VK) in order to wield it themselves.
Additionally since the Morris clan are not pure blood descendants of the Belmont line, wielding the VK causes them to die eventually. This happened to John Morris at some point after bloodlines. So it seems only the true lineage of the Belmonts (Leon> Trevor>>>>>> Richter> Julius) are able to use the VK without causing their eventual demise.

I didn't know Eric was a descendant of Alucard/ Maria.. I always thought he was maybe inspired by Amon from Amon Saga since Alucard, or at least the fact he is a dhampire was probably inspired somewhat by Vampire Hunter D (which had the same creator)

[Nagumo]

I'm curious about the original intent of the Alucard Spear back when Bloodlines first came out. It's a pretty suprising bit of continuity back then, since Alucard was a bit of a goofball before SotN. Judgment retconned the Lecardes into being Belmont relatives, so it's possible there was orginally a connenction. 

[Ahasverus]

You know something I dislike strongly? Those "Belmonts relatives". Ugh. Everyone is a Belmont but it isn't. I hate them all (and it doesn't make really sense as if, for example, Quincy and John had Belmont blood the whip wouldn't have killed them. And if we go for the "only pure Belmonts aren't killed" we're going for some kind of sexist thing were the only true Belmonts are descendant of male Belmonts only). I'd love if the lecardes were Alucard's offspring and only Alucard's (is Maria  a Belmont relative too?)

[beingthehero]

(is Maria  a Belmont relative too?)

Yeah. In the SNES Dracula X she's Annette's sister, whereas in Rondo she's just a long-lost Belmont relative, hence her powers. I hope I have that right.

As for the Belmont relatives, they had to insert a bit of drama to make PoR a bit more interesting, I guess, in the character development department in regards to Johanthan. Not that it was done entirely well, since his whole inferiority complex became really grating really fast. But it makes sense to a certain degree as to why they wanted to show why not just anybody could pick up the whip and use it, even if they were part Belmont.

And if we go for the "only pure Belmonts aren't killed" we're going for some kind of sexist thing were the only true Belmonts are descendant of male Belmonts only).

I really hope this is just satire on your part, because you'll need like size XXXL stretch pants to fit that stretch of an argument for hidden sexism.

I'm curious about the original intent of the Alucard Spear back when Bloodlines first came out. It's a pretty suprising bit of continuity back then, since Alucard was a bit of a goofball before SotN. Judgment retconned the Lecardes into being Belmont relatives, so it's possible there was orginally a connenction. 

Yeah, I really wished it was kept that Eric was a descendent of Alucard. Even PoR hinted towards this, with that promo art of Eric with Alucard's silhouette in the background.

Also good lord was Eric hateable in Judgment. How do you go from suave Spaniard in Bloodlines to Undead Col. Trautman in PoR to whiny prepubescent is anybody's guess.

[Ahasverus]

Yeah. In the SNES Dracula X she's Annette's sister, whereas in Rondo she's just a long-lost Belmont relative, hence her powers. I hope I have that right.

I really hope this is just satire on your part, because you'll need like size XXXL stretch pants to fit that stretch of an argument for hidden sexism.

Well going by the fact that post Trevor Belmonts would have be worth nothing without Sypah's genes yeah it's pretty sexist (not in the moden sense, of course, but in the traditional one) that the male Belmont genes grant power and the female Belmont genes carry weakness to the Vampire Killer. Wich, you know, was bonded with female blood. Yeah.

[Nagumo]

It's still possible for the Lecardes to be both descendants of Alucard and the Belmonts if the popular notion of him hooking up with Maria was canon, since she is also a Belmont relative as was already pointed out. They kind off pushed their relationship in the radio drama, so who knows. Pretty convoluted, but that's Castlevania for you. 

Also, I don't want to open a can of worms, but what actually is the basis for this superior/inferior gene business? Sounds like something Thomas Belmont would come up with.

[Ahasverus]

Also, I don't want to open a can of worms, but what actually is the basis for this superior/inferior gene business? Sounds like something Thomas Belmont would come up with.

Because the Morrises while having Belmont blood (uneccessary connection) they have it by the female line (as they don't have the surname "Belmont") and they are killed by the use of the Vampire Killer. Considering they have the exact amount of genetic material than a person with the surname Belmont of their time, the basis for calling one "A true Belmont" is the surname which is gotten by having a father Belmont who has a father Belmont and so on, making only the male Belmont line to be worthy.

Unless "true Belmont" includes the child of two Belmonts but Incest was never hinted 

[e105beta]

Because the Morrises while having Belmont blood (uneccessary connection) they have it by the female line (as they don't have the surname "Belmont") and they are killed by the use of the Vampire Killer. Considering they have the exact amount of genetic material than a person with the surname Belmont of their time, the basis for calling one "A true Belmont" is the surname which is gotten by having a father Belmont who has a father Belmont and so on, making only the male Belmont line to be worthy.

Unless "true Belmont" includes the child of two Belmonts but Incest was never hinted 

I think it's just a lack of foresight on IGA's part. That, or incest.

I mean, it's the same deal with Fire Emblem where they have these "I'm a descendant of *insert super powerful ancient warrior here*" as if that makes them special while ignoring the fact that unless everyone in that family has had one child for the last 1000 years, then there's hundreds if not thousands of people descended from that same person.

[X]

IGA was the one whom first implied that only a direct male descendant of the main Belmont family could use the Vampirekiller. It's a very weak augment even for story purposes, and in my mind does not hold up in any sort of way, realistically or otherwise. I much rather prefer the Super Castlevania IV explanation; The Vampierkiller whip is passed down from the parent to the eldest child of the main family line. This explanation avoids the sexism that IGA invoked later on. Whether it was or was not intentional is very debatable all around. And also it was only introduced in PoR that unless you are a direct descendant of the main family then the whip will not kill you. That was never the case in Bloodlines. In fact John Morris from Bloodlines was one of the more powerful Belmont descendants considering how powerful his whip got along with his item crashes.

[Ahasverus]

But what is a direct descendant? That's the problem, there is no such thing as a direct descendant, every descendant, first, second, female born etc have the same genes. The first born explanation is better, but that doesn't explain the whole "Vampire killer kills the non Belmonts" thing. I mean, it's ok if it hurts people with zero Belmont blood, but the Morrises supposedly have and it shouldn't hurt them.

[DragonSlayr81]

You know something I dislike strongly? Those "Belmonts relatives". Ugh. Everyone is a Belmont but it isn't. I hate them all (and it doesn't make really sense as if, for example, Quincy and John had Belmont blood the whip wouldn't have killed them. And if we go for the "only pure Belmonts aren't killed" we're going for some kind of sexist thing were the only true Belmonts are descendant of male Belmonts only). I'd love if the lecardes were Alucard's offspring and only Alucard's (is Maria  a Belmont relative too?)

Seeing that the Vampire Killer whip is atune to only those baring the Belmont name(and those who are relative still cannot while it without penalty), it makes it a sort of magical curse, and sad to say, magic and curse ARE sexist. The Bible, death to the first born son... why not the first born daughter? That's one sexist curse if I do say so myself!

Well going by the fact that post Trevor Belmonts would have be worth nothing without Sypah's genes yeah it's pretty sexist (not in the moden sense, of course, but in the traditional one) that the male Belmont genes grant power and the female Belmont genes carry weakness to the Vampire Killer. Wich, you know, was bonded with female blood. Yeah.

I don't think female Belmonts carry weak genes more than their suitors carry weak genes. Then again, the fact that you need to magically awaken the VK proves that it has nothing to do with science and everything to do with magic(hence curse).

Though, to play devil's advocate, saying that magic is sexist isn't the only truth. Science be as well. Talking about gene, I remember seeing this special on television regarding a certain hereditary disease that is passed on by women to their children, but only affects males(sons). The males don't pass it on to THEIR children, but the daughters do. And so on, and so on. Damn, nature, you're SEXIST!!