Topic: the Alucard-Lecarde connection

[Nagumo]

Yeah but the sideplot of OoE was finding his descendants. The old lady seemed to be his daughter, since she reminisced about fighting monsters with her father, and Shanoa almost yelled out in surprise that the lady was a true blue Belmont.

YEAH

WELL

I TRIED

[darkwzrd4]

I never liked how you had the VK at the start, but it's power was restricted. I guess it's the only way they could think for Jonathan to have it and not be overpowered. Plus, AoS was already out and they had to explain how Julius had the Belmont surname when Jon (from Bloodlines) didn't. By saying that the Morris and Lecarde families are "side families" somewhat related to the Belmonts and that the main Belmonts couldn't tough the whip until 1999, sort of explains everything.

It would've been better to just say that Bloodlines was on an alternate timeline like CV64 and LoD and then making games with non-Belmont heroes only for the period between years 1797 (SotN) and 1999 (DCW). Hell, they could've used Alucard a few times or perhaps decendants of Grant or even Belnades witches.

As for Alucard's connection to the Lecarde family, it's possible when the whip was given to the Morris family and the method of unlocking its true power was given to the Lecarde family, Alucard created the spear and gave to the Lecarde's so that they could fight along side the Morris's in battle only unlocking the whip's full potential in times of great need.

[Flame]

TL;DR, PoR ruined everything to do with the Belmonts and their conenction to the whip.

In Bloodlines, John uses it just fine. he's a Belmont relative, he gets the whip, no fuss or muss about it. Eric Lecarde gets a fancy spear from Alucard, so that Belmonts dont have to go it alone and have some backup.

PoR: ONLY DIRECT BELMONTS CAN USE THE WHIP! EVERYONE ELSE DIES! OH AND YOU CANT USE ITS FULL POWER, YOU HAVE TO DEFEAT RICHTER TO USE IT SO WE CAN SHOEHORN IN A RICHTER BOSSFIGHT WITH RONDO SPRITES, OH AND ONLY ERIC LECARDE AND HIS FAMILY CAN MAKE THAT BOSS FIGHT HAPPEN SO WE HAVE A PLOT EXCUSE FOR DESU TWINS

IGA gon' IGA

[beingthehero]

I never liked how you had the VK at the start, but it's power was restricted.

They missed an opportunity to have the unpowered vampire killer be the normal leather whip, whereas it becomes the usual chain whip after you fight the whip's memory.

Though on the other hand I'll take those CVII whips any day. I bonnered stupidly when I realized you they put all the whips from CVII in the game, plus the Stellar Sword and Alucard Spear. 

[zangetsu468]

Yeah but the sideplot of OoE was finding his descendants. The old lady seemed to be his daughter, since she reminisced about fighting monsters with her father, and Shanoa almost yelled out in surprise that the lady was a true blue Belmont.

Daniela had memories of fighting Monsters with her grandfather if I remember correctly. Unless the Japanese version it said "father"
With 13 direct bloodlines, I don't see the emergence of Julius unreasonable.

Speculation on my behalf but maybe the longer the VK is not used for by the bloodline, the stronger it becomes. It may have something to do with the Belmonts catching on that Dracula was going to keep resurrecting, so they concocted a plan to destroy him once and for all.

PoR: ONLY DIRECT BELMONTS CAN USE THE WHIP! EVERYONE ELSE DIES! OH AND YOU CANT USE ITS FULL POWER, YOU HAVE TO DEFEAT RICHTER TO USE IT SO WE CAN SHOEHORN IN A RICHTER BOSSFIGHT WITH RONDO SPRITES, OH AND ONLY ERIC LECARDE AND HIS FAMILY CAN MAKE THAT BOSS FIGHT HAPPEN SO WE HAVE A PLOT EXCUSE FOR DESU TWINS

I loved that boss fight

[DragonSlayr81]

It would've been better to just say that Bloodlines was on an alternate timeline like CV64 and LoD and then making games with non-Belmont heroes only for the period between years 1797 (SotN) and 1999 (DCW). Hell, they could've used Alucard a few times or perhaps decendants of Grant or even Belnades witches.

I kinda like the idea someone brought up in the other thread. SotN's different endings lead to a split in the timeline. Richter suriving leads to the Belmonts being a prominent force up to 1999. Richter dies, the Belmont line ends with him and the Morris clan have to step up to take their place.

And yes, PoR did more harm than it did good. In itself, what it brought to the series, it was basically worthless.

[The Puritan]

Crisis averted.

Now if we could see that in the games that would be great, passing ceremony and all.

I would love a game with a passing-of-the-torch theme, maybe between Juste and Richter. Sorta like Belmont's Revenge but minus the mind control.

[Gunlord]

Maybe John Morris had a bossfight with Richter before the events of Bloodlines, and we just never saw it in game........

[Ahasverus]

Maybe John Morris had a bossfight with Richter before the events of Bloodlines, and we just never saw it in game........

He didn't because he died.

[Munchy]

Yeah but the sideplot of OoE was finding his descendants. The old lady seemed to be his daughter, since she reminisced about fighting monsters with her father, and Shanoa almost yelled out in surprise that the lady was a true blue Belmont.

Really? That's actually pretty cool. I forgot about this.

[zangetsu468]

I kinda like the idea someone brought up in the other thread. SotN's different endings lead to a split in the timeline. Richter suriving leads to the Belmonts being a prominent force up to 1999. Richter dies, the Belmont line ends with him and the Morris clan have to step up to take their place.

This is how I see the 64 titles regarding their placement. Kind of like how none of the DBZ movies could have happened (aside from the 1st one with Pilaf, but I digress) but these are self-contained stories in a what-if scenario.

And yes, PoR did more harm than it did good. In itself, what it brought to the series, it was basically worthless.

Why does everything have to add up perfectly though? Part of the beauty of the older canon was where another piece of the story was going to fit into and what it meant. Take Legend of Zelda ALTTP for example, it was always a hindrance to the overall canon, because nobody could work out how Ganondorf could possess the entire Triforce. Yet it created so many theories from so many fans because they enjoyed the series so much. (And it's still probably the most iconic Zelda to this day) I think fans to an extent have done the same with CV.

POR's plot may not be perfect to some. I still see that it has much value. It explained the necessity of the Lecardes into the overall canon, it explained why there were so few - let's say - "Non-Belmonts" who could wield the VK. It brought in several new characters, previously unseen whose interactions with one another were decent. It brought the Death/Dracula and whip's memory battle which were 2 of the most memorable, including a new level of difficulty to metroidvania.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to say it's worthless.. Well each to their own.

[Ahasverus]

Talk about Stockholm Syndrome

[zangetsu468]

....Go back to your bong, hippie

[Flame]

Why does everything have to add up perfectly though?

Because IGA intended it to add up perfectly, and introduced a clear sense of chronology into the series. PoR is specifically billed as a sequel to Bloodlines. As such it incorporates Bloodlines characters and plot points.

And it does so piss poorly. it introduces even more things in relation to Bloodlines, which did not need to exist, and have only complicated what was a simple story meant to tie the Castlevania series to the original Dracula by Stoker through nothing more than it's main character and concept of travel around europe.

Part of the beauty of the older canon was where another piece of the story was going to fit into and what it meant.

Before IGA things were still pretty damn clear. CV1 was preceeded by CV3, an origin story about the first Belmont to defeat Dracula, and the Gameboy games were simply another part of the grander story, fitting in wherever any dates allowed. Rondo was the latest Belmont at the time of his game's release, descendant of Simon. So on and So forth. Even games like Legends had a pretty clear cut place. Legends was a prequel to a prequel until IGA removed it from the timeline. Even with IGA's introduction there was still pretty clear concepts. SotN is a sequel to Rondo, taking place right after it, with Richter and everything. There's none of this "WHAT DOES IT MEEEEAN? WHERE DOES IT GO?" It was all very often pretty clear in the manual, usually in the form of, "this belmont, son of Simon..." or, "this belmont, the first belmont" or something other to describe more or less in between which belmonts they fit in.

Take Legend of Zelda ALTTP for example, it was always a hindrance to the overall canon, because nobody could work out how Ganondorf could possess the entire Triforce. Yet it created so many theories from so many fans because they enjoyed the series so much. (And it's still probably the most iconic Zelda to this day) I think fans to an extent have done the same with CV.

Legend of Zelda has no concrete canonical timeline though. Come even close to creating a proper timeline structure to LoZ and Nintendo will fucking assassinate you while you sleep. Castlevania has always had a very concrete timeline since day 2, when Simon's Quest came out. It wasnt some gaiden, some retelling, it was a direct sequel to the original. And CV3 after was a prequel to the original. so on and so forth I mentioned this already.

I still see that it has much value. It explained the necessity of the Lecardes into the overall canon,

The nessecity of the Lecardes was nothing more than a story reason for a gimmick, that gimmick being a boss fight. IGA's grand purpose for the Lecarde family was to give you a Richter boss fight. They needed no special purpose other than to be the backup to the VK. The Zero to The Belmont's X, the Luigi to Mario. Merely to complement each other and make it a team effort. IGA meanwhile, not only essentially killed both of Bloodlines protagonists for his own ORIGINAL CHARACTERS DO NOT STEAL descendants, but made the grand payoff of the Lecarde "special ritual" , this grand thing to unlock the true power of the whip, (a bullshit notion he invented) a boss fight with Richter. Oh boy how swell. More asset reuse. Because PoR wasn't already heavy enough in that department.

it explained why there were so few - let's say - "Non-Belmonts" who could wield the VK.

Did it need such a convoluted explanation though? It was simple enough as there is only 1 damn whip. Vampire Killer is a unique relic. Nothing else like it exists. So only one person at a time can wield it. The father passes it to the next of kin to succeed him. It has always been that simple. Morrises were related to the Belmonts, and the Whip landed in John's hands eventually. That simple. No need for any convoluted nonsensical curse that kills anyone who doesn't have a specific last name. I mean really. What determines a pure blood Belmont? There is no such thing, unless they are fucking their own sisters. The Morrises are therefore just as pure as the Belmonts, they only lack the last name. Don't tell me that The whip is fucking picky about who has what name, when they are still blood kin, and John Morris, has no doubt obtained the whip through proper inheritance.

It brought in several new characters

Not all for the better. Brauner is literally just an Olrox clone that fills the Nosferatu Vampire. And really> paintings? painting magic? really? Also, do the Desu Twins at all use the spear? I didn't think so. Jhonathan gets the spear. the desu twins are literally pointless outside of providing a Richter boss fight, and being bosses themselves.

previously unseen whose interactions with one another were decent.

Like who? The desu twins and Jhonathan and Charlotte were literally not born when John and Eric were on their adventure. What's this of unseen characters? NO new characters are ever "previously seen."

It brought the Death/Dracula and whip's memory battle which were 2 of the most memorable, including a new level of difficulty to metroidvania.

Most Death battles are memorable. Difficulty is subjective and dependant on skill and items. And the Whip memory is a worthless battle thrown in only as a way to reuse more sprites from rondo, and as an excuse to put Richter in the game So they have a bonus character mode.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to say it's worthless.. Well each to their own.

There is literally nothing worthwhile about PoR. It's art style is generic and sucks. It's character designsd are not particularly memorable,(though i do like Charlotte) and do not fit in with any general style of castlevania character design. And they most CERTAINLY do not fit within the context of the era. John and Eric, fit within their era. Johnathan leapt out of some shounen anime.

The game does NOTHING with it's potential WWII setting, And while Bloodlines made you travel all across the map, PoR substitutes this with paintings. PAINTINGS. All for the sake of keeping it a metroidvania and once again try and make that SotN gold roll in.

The story is a clusterfuck which introduces needless complications to the overall timeline. On that alone it's a stupid game. The asset reuse hit it's peak with this game too, with even bosses lifted from Dawn of Sorrow. which was not aided by the cheap art style making the game feel like evn more of a cheap cash in of the Bloodlines fame.

Also, it failed to actually include Eric or John as the bonus mode, instead opting for Richter and Maria. Because you know, Rondo is his favorite game to reuse assets from. That alone makes me upset. That Richter and Maria would be considered for a bonus character mode instead of the original two protagonists of the game this is a sequel to.

And that's all ive got to say about that...

Talk about Stockholm Syndrome

tell me about it.

....Go back to your bong, hippie

Wow, very mature response. I'm impressed. Thanks for proving his point.

[zangetsu468]

Mature responses? That's ironic.. How angry were you when you wrote that post, someone needs to chill the F out.

Zelda does have a concrete timeline, it's documented in Hyrule Historia.

In conclusion, games are supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun you're not doing it right. Maybe steer clear of those games.

That's all I'm going to say, I don't have to listen to some prepubescent f@!*head having a tantrum. Have a lovely day.