Topic: Cod and LoI ideas that were forgotten: why?

[olrox2]

Despite all their flaws, LoI and Cod on PS2 featured a number of interesting ideas, that ended being kind of cliffhangers.

Ebenite and Crimson Stones were never heard about again. Neither were  the whereabouts of StGermain and who he exactly was, kind of agent of Good?
Were those episodes on PS2 so unpopular Konami decided to get rid about those ideas?

[theANdROId]

That's a good question!  I'd forgotten about those things.  I really liked the way they presented St. Germain...I'd like to see him again.

[K.G. Morder]

Leon destroyed the Ebony Stone.

And the Crimson stone I assume Dracula eventually had no more need of. After all, he was already a vampire, which was the purpose of the stone, to steal a Vampire's soul and use it to become a vampire.

[KaZudra]

I remember hearing somewhere that the Crimson stone was absorbed into Dracula's soul...

[darkwzrd4]

Leon destroyed the Ebony Stone.

And the Crimson stone I assume Dracula eventually had no more need of. After all, he was already a vampire, which was the purpose of the stone, to steal a Vampire's soul and use it to become a vampire.

Ah...Well if you remember, the Crimson Stone turns the souls of vampires into power for its master. Dracula was a very powerful vampire, but how did he become so powerful? My theory is that in the centuries between LoI and CV3 the Belmonts and other vampire hunters were killing vampires. Death could have been gathering the souls of slain vampires and gave them to Dracula/Mathias who would then use the Crimson Stone and the vampire souls to grow more powerful.

Then again, I could be wrong. It's just being that it is one of the most precious treasures for vampires you would think that it would be mentioned if it was destroyed.

As for CoD ideas that were forgotten, I think that game was so bad that most people want to forget it even existed.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Ah...Well if you remember, the Crimson Stone turns the souls of vampires into power for its master. Dracula was a very powerful vampire, but how did he become so powerful? My theory is that in the centuries between LoI and CV3 the Belmonts and other vampire hunters were killing vampires. Death could have been gathering the souls of slain vampires and gave them to Dracula/Mathias who would then use the Crimson Stone and the vampire souls to grow more powerful.

Then again, I could be wrong. It's just being that it is one of the most precious treasures for vampires you would think that it would be mentioned if it was destroyed.

As for CoD ideas that were forgotten, I think that game was so bad that most people want to forget it even existed.

Didn't IGA already confirm that Mathias/Dracula used the stone through the centuries to become stronger?

I'm pretty sure it was in a interview he released around the time of Dawn of Sorrow.

Crisis posted the same interview in the LOS topic not to long ago.

[X]

As far as I know the Ebony stone is only in LoI, and then...nothing after that. But the Crimson stone on the other hand, well it's plain-as-day in much of Dracula's artwork throughout CV. But before it was the Crimson stone it was simply a blood stone amulet that he wore around his neck.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

As for CoD ideas that were forgotten, I think that game was so bad that most people want to forget it even existed.

Which is a fair assessment, but having recently begun a new save on it, I'm noticing tons of stuff I missed on my first playthrough (including EXACTLY HOW MUCH TRUDGING IS INVOLVED).

My god the trudging.

But Saint Germaine was a promising plot point that went nowhere (he becomes irrelevant once defeated, apparently), Death appearing in disguise to manipulate the hero was only revisited in the Lords of Shadow timeline (despite it being a thing he seems like he'd pull ALL THE TIME).

The idea of Devil Forgemasters was kind of neat, and while it made for a potentially game breakingly powerful player character, Isaac demonstrated a remarkable penchant for over-the-top and amusing villainy, and made me wonder why Dracula wasn't accompanied by at least one Forgemaster right hand man in each "cycle", seeing as Isaac was such a competent fighter at the end.

Also, the far reaching implications of Dracula's Curse were not fully dealt with; it kind of got handwaved with Hector going "oh, I turned it into the plot equivalent of an adorable bunny rabbit", which just now convinces me that he probably turned the curse into Bunnicula (the edgy origin story finally revealed!). And then Julia going "It's mark will not easily vanish." and theeeennnn.... nothing. Nothing at all. It's never brought up again, it leaves no lasting effects, and everything original the game brings up is either wrapped up neatly with a bow in a way that leaves zero impact on the timeline or the things that aren't wrapped up (like the Death/St. Germaine rivalry) go completely flat out ignored by everything else... it's really as close to a canon-non-canon title as Castlevania gets.

It's actually sad for me because I love that game (you never forget your first!).

I'd love to see a follow up, even if it is a cheap mobile game, which addresses some of those lingering plot threads.

[Ahasverus]

Try playing them again. I did. Never again. Those games have nothing worthy of redemption. Music, perhaps. That was it.

Edit: Oooh story ideas. Yeah, IGA gonna IGA.

[GuyStarwind]

I've been playing LoI after a few years and I've been enjoying the heck out of it. Sure it has it's problems but doesn't every game? I'll write more on it when it's up on reviews we've been doing lately.

[zangetsu468]

Despite all their flaws, LoI and Cod on PS2 featured a number of interesting ideas, that ended being kind of cliffhangers.

Ebenite and Crimson Stones were never heard about again. Neither were  the whereabouts of StGermain and who he exactly was, kind of agent of Good?
Were those episodes on PS2 so unpopular Konami decided to get rid about those ideas?

Alchemy was rampant particularly in the 11th Century, the more centuries passed the less it was heard of with the globalisation of chemistry.

LOI speaks of 4 stones of Alchemy and only ever mention 2. (My theory is the other stones where something like Emerald and Ivory, which together with crimson and ebony, could have signified the 4 cardinal points.*)

*It is also rumoured that emeralds may have age reducing properties, though I can't verify this myself

ST Germain is the historical figure/ Master Alchemist who achieved the true goal of Alchemy (as per LOI's story) which is eternal life. He can observe things and is not limited to time and space, though he does mention during COD after his fight with Hector that the Masters/ higher forces won't let him interfere with history - so the battle ends. During the battle he uses techniques such as "Time reverse" and "time advance"

My understanding was that St Germain is the opposite to Death, in the context of LOI. Zedd seems to be more trustworthy than him but later on we find out this is not the case. He is also fought at the clocktower which juxtaposes the general association of fighting Death.

Didn't IGA already confirm that Mathias/Dracula used the stone through the centuries to become stronger?

I'm pretty sure it was in a interview he released around the time of Dawn of Sorrow.

Crisis posted the same interview in the LOS topic not to long ago.

I believe the point of Dracula having the Crimson Stone (which is sometimes shoehorned into artwork as a neckpiece or broach etc) is that when he dies, he absorbs his own soul (since the stone allows the user to absorb the soul of vampires) This explains why Dracula keeps returning and provides both physical and metaphysical logic as to why.

Hence, when he resurrects he comes back with the previous power he's accumulated and then some. This would potentially mean that when Julius completely destroyed him in 1999, he was at his absolute most powerful.


*EDIT: Also I assumed when Mathias abosrobed the Soul of Walter that he too absorbed the Ebony Stone, which would explain why the Castle keep can be kept in eternal night for Dracula's resurrection..

[zangetsu468]

I've been playing LoI after a few years and I've been enjoying the heck out of it. Sure it has it's problems but doesn't every game? I'll write more on it when it's up on reviews we've been doing lately.

I feel with older games up to the PS2 gen, imperfections were welcomed in games. LOI didn't have the best AI with enemies and had repetitive rooms/halls, so what? It was a memorable game. I feel that essence of certain games are lost these days for fear of not appealing to a wide enough audience.

[GuyStarwind]

What you mentioned are a few of the issues I have with it. 

[X]

Also I assumed when Mathias abosrobed the Soul of Walter that he too absorbed the Crimson Stone, which would explain why the Castle keep can be kept in eternal night for Dracula's resurrection..

Walter did not have the Crimson stone. He only had the Ebony stone which is why the forest he dwells in is always under the cover of darkness. Mathias was the one to have the Crimson stone with him.

[zangetsu468]

Walter did not have the Crimson stone. He only had the Ebony stone which is why the forest he dwells in is always under the cover of darkness. Mathias was the one to have the Crimson stone with him.

Sorry X, I did mean *ebony stone* - edited

I assumed Mathias absorbed/ took possession of this when he absorbed Walter