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Offline Super Waffle

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What part of Rondo is canon?
« on: August 05, 2015, 09:28:16 PM »
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Are we supposed to assume Richter was the one who officially fought all the bosses and Maria Mode was just a "what if" scenario? Did Richter do all the Route A levels while Maria got the Route B levels? Did they go through the same route at different times and fight every boss twice?

How does that shit work?

Offline theplottwist

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 10:19:03 PM »
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I remember reading somewhere that not only Maria traversed the castle with him, but SotN's "Maria makes you invincible against Dracula" was canon. And I remember vaguely that IGA himself said that.

But again, I cannot confirm this because I don't remember the source. If I find it, I'm posting it here.
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2015, 07:33:49 AM »
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I remember reading somewhere that not only Maria traversed the castle with him, but SotN's "Maria makes you invincible against Dracula" was canon. And I remember vaguely that IGA himself said that.

It makes sense, since Maria can temporarily make herself invincible.

I see the general consensus as Rondo being a joined effort. Since Maria is a playable character from the start and her role is crucial to Rondo and Sotn.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
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            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
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BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline X

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2015, 10:05:37 AM »
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In-game you chose to play either character. But story-wise I believe they both traversed the castle together and rescued all the other abductees. Also Maria would have assisted Richter in the defeat of Dracula as it is shown in the SotN prologue when Dracula takes down all of Richter's life.
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 01:22:53 PM »
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The timeline says they defeated Dracula together, so unless this is a scenario that is not obtainable in the game, I assume, as others have been saying, the scene where Maria powers up Richter is "what happend". Can you rescue Iris, Tera, and Annette while only following a single route (I forgot)? If not, it would make sense that Richter and Maria split up. 

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 01:38:26 PM »
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Where was it said that the power-up scene is actually canon? As I recall, it was actually fairly difficult to lose against Dracula because he was so easy. ;o

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Offline theplottwist

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 02:13:01 PM »
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Where was it said that the power-up scene is actually canon? As I recall, it was actually fairly difficult to lose against Dracula because he was so easy. ;o

I added this tidbit because I'm sure I have read this coming from an official source, yet I can't remember where. Thus I leave this info on the limbo...

But the timeline does indeed say that Maria and Richter defeated Dracula together.
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2015, 01:00:46 AM »
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The timeline says they defeated Dracula together, so unless this is a scenario that is not obtainable in the game, I assume, as others have been saying, the scene where Maria powers up Richter is "what happend". Can you rescue Iris, Tera, and Annette while only following a single route (I forgot)? If not, it would make sense that Richter and Maria split up.

I've only played Rondo through over one sitting which took a day or so (so correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't believe you can rescue all the villagers in a row. This means they would have had to split up and reconvene at the castle keep. Also assuming all of the levels such as 5 ' are indeed canon to the CV Universe.

One would assume Richter rescues Annette (because heroism) and obviously he has to rescue Maria. I like to think that he does rescue both sisters as this is also portrayed in XX and even though it's telling alternate events, quite simply I like that game a lot.

You would also assume SOTN's opening sequence is canon since it's recollecting what happened in Rondo. Although Maria's presence does prevent the player from death which is a convenience factor.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
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BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 03:05:35 AM »
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You would also assume SOTN's opening sequence is canon since it's recollecting what happened in Rondo. Although Maria's presence does prevent the player from death which is a convenience factor.

And a gauge on how well you play in order to obtain certain items at the start.

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 03:43:11 AM »
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Surely the new Pachislot Akumajo Dracula will be the only true canon version of events  :o

Seriously though, I took it as being that they are both 'canon' in that Maria assisted Richter, probably by doing different routes to him, and probably also helped in some way in the final defeat of Dracula.  Interestingly with the SotN opening that replicates the ending of RoB, it pretty much negates DXC as being canonical since Dracula's third form doesn't appear in the flashback/prologue :P

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 04:43:08 AM »
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Maria quotes that Richter and her defeated Dracula together.
Source?  Castlevania Judgment dialog VS. Shanoa (in Shanoa's Story Mode).

Shanoa: A little girl, in a place like this?
Maria: Little...! This "little girl" beat Dracula, ya know.
Shanoa: You defeated Dracula?
Maria: Yep, it's true. I beat him with Richter. We did it together.
Shanoa: If that's true, I ask you grant me a battle.
Maria: I, uh... I guess that'd be okay. Well, whenever you're ready.
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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 05:22:00 AM »
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Interestingly with the SotN opening that replicates the ending of RoB, it pretty much negates DXC as being canonical since Dracula's third form doesn't appear in the flashback/prologue :P

Well, the battle cuts off at Dracula's second form. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to replicate Dracula's third form in SotN because it's something they came up afterwards. However, you could always pretend the fight against the third from happend off-screen in the prologue. What's important is that the prologue establishes Richter defeated Dracula.

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2015, 03:14:46 AM »
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Maria quotes that Richter and her defeated Dracula together.
Source?  Castlevania Judgment dialog VS. Shanoa (in Shanoa's Story Mode).

Shanoa: A little girl, in a place like this?
Maria: Little...! This "little girl" beat Dracula, ya know.
Shanoa: You defeated Dracula?
Maria: Yep, it's true. I beat him with Richter. We did it together.
Shanoa: If that's true, I ask you grant me a battle.
Maria: I, uh... I guess that'd be okay. Well, whenever you're ready.

Regardless of Konami's official stance on Judgment, I wouldn't ever take it as a source of canon in any respect due to the nature of the game's "plot" and broad-strokes characterizations.

It's far less convoluted and more logical to consider it licensed-but-noncanon fanfiction as a video game, whether Konami regards it as canon or not.

It's kind of like Star Wars Infinities, if you're familiar with that mini-series of comics.
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2015, 03:58:14 AM »
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It's far less convoluted and more logical to consider it licensed-but-noncanon fanfiction as a video game, whether Konami regards it as canon or not.

This, and the fact that you'd have to accept Aeon and Cornell as canon characters.
The fact LOD exists out of the canon means judgement is bringing different universes together.

I'm sure many share my sentiment that if Judgement was canon Aeon would have been replaced with St Germain.   
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
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            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
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LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
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BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

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Re: What part of Rondo is canon?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 04:54:56 AM »
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Judgment is still a perfectly valid source, though. There's no "broad-strokes characterizations" going on either, even with Maria, who appeared to be based on her Rondo persona, even if it fell flat. 

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