Topic: What made LOS2 so incredibly bad?

[Chernabogue]

GOOD:
- Gorgeous graphisms and design -- best looking CV game by far (along with LoS1) (the castle, the enemies, some parts of the city, etc.)
- Excellent music -- not too CV-sounding, but a very good and fitting soundtrack
- Good gameplay (combat, bosses, combos and evolution, the relics, some platforming, etc. apart those stealth parts)
- Revelations (DLC) -- excellent and worth its price

BAD:
- Poor writing most of the time (Carmilla shouldn't have appeared, the "Zombie infection" was out of place IMO, Dracula being weak all time, the final part with Satan felt rushed, some interesting parts are left without answers, Alvarez's ending sucks, etc.)
- Modern setting ranged from mediocre to okay -- some places were good, but most of the factories/interiors were meh
- Stealth was badly executed -- it could have been really good if well developed (I still like Agreus' maze even if it was tricky at first -- passed it a few times on my first try)

So yeah, LoS2 is an okay game with very strong points, but also bad parts (for which I blame Alvarez's ego -- I wanted that Satan vs Dragon fight!)

[zangetsu468]

I'm very much against things that contradict each other. Particularly when it comes to plot character/ plot progression, so I was skeptical at trying LOS 2. MoF just completely put me off LOS, so I never tried LOS2. Although I must say that it looks like the normal parts of the game capture CV fairly well.

[Flame]

The masks in general are a plot device that should have returned for 2.

Gabriel clearly was left with the Devil Mask at the end of the first game, we see him holding it if I recall.

That never appears again.


IMO, LoS feels like it should have been a one shot Castlevania story, or the setup for future Belmonts, but not the setup for Dracula. They fucked that up from day 1. it didnt bother me back then, but seeing how they wasted the story potential, It feels like it wouldve been better if they just established Gabe as the first Belmont, who kicked Satan's Ass and therefore dedicated his lineage to fighting evil, with Dracula popping up in "LoS2" and becoming the main antagonist.

I dunno.

MoF at least somewhat tied back to LoS1 with it's introductory narrative. But LoS2 just feels disconnected from both.

the zombie apocalypse was definitely a mistake because that already kills off half the potential for both the setting and the story.

Much more interesting would have been this apocalyptic war between Heaven, Hell and Dracula happening in dark alleys and rooftops, with Humanity mostly unaware, much like the intro implied.

With things getting worse as the story progresses. Not directly after the first level. Demon plague was unnecessary.

Alucard himself is actually very out of character. in MoF he was somewhat vengeful and conflicted. he was fine. in loS2 hes a Xanatos level master planner, who came up with a perfect plan to stop Satan thousands of years into the future. Like, what the fuck was up with that.

Then the WHOLE STORY sets up Gabe for redemption. "I cannot live, yet, I cannot die" the entirety of the Castle segments were about "Dracula" reclaiming the "Gabriel" inside of him through the apparitions of his wife and young son, fighting against the influence of the demonic castle that's become such a part of him that it actually refuses to let him leave it behind.

up until the very last minute it seems like he will get his redemption. Instead we dont even fight Satan proper, who got a nice new redesign, and he gets shivved like a bitch in the street. Because all of a sudden the Vampire Killer stake is particularly strong effective against him despite him not being a vampire, whereas in the first game, he literally just beat Satan into submission through holy empowerment, not because his weapon was special. And then he burned his ass with divine energy. Satan was not actually defeated in loS1 until Gabe burned him by expelling the energy that revived him and empowered him. So that's an inconsistency too.

And then for a game that is a grand finale, it ends on the most pathetic whimper ive ever seen. It's literally a "thats all folks, see you next episode!" ending

[Lumi Kløvstad]

One thing that burned the hell out of me was that the only DLC for the game centered on Alucard. Admittedly, I deeply enjoyed Revelations (except for that CLIMB FAST OR DIE segment).

However, I really wish that we'd gotten a DLC starring Victor Belmont that set up his arrival in the City, and followed him as he tried to keep people safe, and ended with him running into Dracula for the very first time. It would have gone a long way towards redeeming how horribly he got shafted in the main game. Adding in Trevor and Simon Belmont skins in that DLC would have made it even more amusing.

But no.

We didn't get diddly squat for Victor Belmont.

[DoctaMario]

The modern day segments seemed shoehorned in just because they were trying to reel in the MGS crowd, which is a shame because the game DID have moments of brilliance.

The combat had the potential to be even better than LoS1, but somehow, Gabe's hits didn't seem to have as much weight behind them. Maybe that was a conscious choice, especially when he was fighting human enemies, but considering the added weapons he had, and the ability to switch them up on the fly, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't as satisfying as LoS1 somehow.

I enjoyed the Toymaker segments, the opening level, and some of the castle areas, and thought the boss battles were actually pretty excellent. But I felt like the game could have used some editing and that the modern day segments could have either been cut or made shorter. There was too much aimless wandering and that whole Wolf Medallion was kind of a weird way to transition between scenes.

[Kingshango]

The positives:

Great art direction, especially in the castle(the modern areas not so much but I'll get to that).

The bosses are fun to fight albeit easy to cheese. I'll go as far as to say as western boss fights go, they're better than most especially last gen.

The music is good, once again not very Castlevania ish but fitting for the game.

Moveable camera, might not be a big deal for most but for me it was a blessing.

The Alucard Revelations DLC. Felt more like what the game could have been, which led to my further disappointment with the main game.

The not-so-positives:

The modern setting is bland and boring %95 of the time with the exception of the arts district.

The stealth segments have no business being in the game in the beginning I could understand but I still gotta stealth it against these Warhammer guys after I just ripped out the heart of a giant Gorgon? Fuck outta here.

The story goes absolutely nowhere until the tail end of the game and it manages to fall flat on it's face in the end. Clearly the ending was a rush job so that Konami could make more sequels in the future (but with their actions as of late those plans are as good as dead at this point.)

The enemy variety is sparce in the modern area with you fighting either T Virus rejects, Metal Gears and re skinned werewolves as demons. The only enemies worth fighting in the modern areas were the monks (other hated them but I thought they were ok). In my opinion, they should have ran with the blood monsters traveling through the castle to the city areas but for whatever reason decide to drop that after a short period of time.

The treatment of Victor Belmont. You create a badass hero antagonist who fights the same abilities as you did from the first game (arguably the best fight in the game) and could have easily took aout the acolytes himself, only to cast himaside as a sacrificial lamb for no fucking reason other than a plot device to fork over a piece of the mirror? Once again, fuck outta here.


Overall is not so much as a bad game than it is a massive disappointment, especially if you like the first game even for a little bit. There are moments in this game that screamed "We tried to make a decent game here but our hands were tied due to fuckery within development." You know how you can feel a games development hell the more you play it? You can definitely feel it in LOS2.

[Belmontoya]

I wish I could give input past the first few hours of the game, but that's as far as I made it before I threw my hands up.

The weird part is that I thought it was ok while I was playing it and then I just... Stopped...

After that I sold my PS3 thinking that a ps4 port was on the way. I planned to give it another go then, but we all know that didn't happen.

Now it's just another CV in my collection that I don't have a system for.

Something went very, very wrong with LOS2.

[X]

The weird part is that I thought it was ok while I was playing it and then I just... Stopped...

This was my experience in LoS. The Dracolich was the final straw that broke the camel's back. And I've never even bothered with the other games. There's just no point. Outsourcing CV to another company reminds me of the stunt Konami did when they outsourced Contra to Appaloosa. Fortunately the original creators of Contra managed to resuscitate the franchise and it's been great since. But did Konami learn from this mistake? No. I just can't say the same for Castlevania. Outsourcing CV couldn't have happened at a worse time. 

[Lanforse]

In my opinion, the worst thing about LoS2 was my own expectations.
The demo was REALLY good - better graphics, better controls (controllable camera, YAY!), dark and gothic style, quotes from SotN, blood whip is a little step back from a God of War chains (but claws and sword is a big step towards another GoW weapons)...
And then the final version of the game was out, I was full of disappointment. The good things from demo were the ONLY good things at all, everything other was... Bad. I literally HATE everything from the "modern" part - the gameplay (oh my God, that stealth...), the enemies, the bosses, the plot, the style, etc...
The castle segments, in other hand, are really good. They're really close to my thoughts, how the new LoS should be. I wish they were more often, so the whole game was just "a good game with bad segments". But no, IMO, the LoS2 is "a bad game with some good segments".

[Belmont Stakes]

One other thing if I may interject. The prologue states that who so ever kills the Lords of Shadow will sit upon their throne as the Prince of Darkness. So is Death not the final Lord of Shadow but instead the Devil who does that bit of dirty does the job in Gabriel's stead. Then Gabriel gets owned by Zobek via the Zombie Nintendo Power Glove. After that he chokes out Maynard James Keenan (wheres those MMA kills bra? Rickson Gracie would be ashamed) Finally he shows how the Forgotten One Being gets  prepped for Bernhard's/Frankenstein's/Cronqvist's Castle in Lament of Innocence. After all that somehow someway Zobek is still alive sans his facial mud applicator mask but then again he got the ultimate makeover for modern day Vania City. How is it that Gabriel is the Dragon when those two still come back? Also Mighty Lucifer has an super buff angel body with Chicken Legs. in the first game he has a human form with smoke coming from his root and sacral chakras a convenient cover up for his how do ya do unlike his form in Dante's Inferno. You can see his wah wah.

In short I would bring back the artists, the music composer, Alucard with some more skills and another Belmont one who is not content to die a virgin or without a progeny and sacrifice humanities last ditch.

With that I leave you with fuck damn shit!!!!

[Aceearly1993]

Alvarez's fukin' motive that changed the game from what it supposed to be

The lack of a "real-boss battle" gauntlet with the Red Armored Guard, after suffering from them in a quite long time

Also the lack of a one-on-one gauntlet with Satan in his super devil form; His death was SO sudden that he can't make his super devil form out, after his escape from Alucard's body; blame the planners of last fight and related events

Victor's death was SO sudden; He can still kick some @$$ in the extra challenge mini mission though

The last Acolyte Guido who was dead SUDDENLY.

The Throne room and the church Dracula was awakened can only visit limited times (Including DLC Alucard quest)

The difficulty of some extra challenge mini missions

The confusing positions of hidden items' locations and the lack of a reasonable map like DS-Castlevania era to check the locations with more convenient (The map in the map room is very rough, and the "GPS" bringing by Dracula can barely check out something; The birds set to find those hidden items could be crazy sometimes)

The abilities in DLC Alucad quest was some recycled earlier plans of Dracula's abilities that wasn't implemented in time when the main quest is out; Though considered the usage of abilities (Time control, bat swarm warp, etc) and gimmicks they seem to be more fit Alucard

Apart from the weak side, I actually like the way how Dracula walks outside the church he awakened, weakly, with a red robe; Looking at the red robe I think it's like how Sigma did in Mega Man X6 for some reason.

[TatteredSeraph]

Others have listed at length my own gripes with 2.  I think the biggest issue is the show of glimpses of what this game could have been, before being snatched away into something confusing, somewhat dull and releatative, and badly paced.  I also would have loved to have seen a return of the God and devil masks plot.  Orionali's fic Rebirth handles this quite nicely, actually.

The castle sections were amazing, albeit too brief.  I'd have loved to have seen stuff done with why Carmilla appeared as she did.  Why were Agreus, Carmilla, and the Toymaker sections so short?  So much untapped potential.  I love the music, it just fits.  But I wanted more of it.  A few more re workings of the classics.  There's a wonderful synth orchestra version of vampire killer and bloody tears to a LoS vid which worked perfectly.  Make as much use of that huge orchestra that they had access to!  I loved Al's reimagining, and Gabe is up there amongst the best of the Belmont clan.  But Dave Cox's claims that the ending didn't signify Gabe's redemption was just at odds with what was clearly a redemption plot.

[Anglachel]

Because we never got what MOF and LOS1 set up: a redemption story of an evil man who learns to forgive and love again.

I don't think Gabriel's descent was setup very well in the first, since we were told that by narrator Zobek instead of seeing it through Gabriel's actions, but he was still very sympathetic and likable. It was his motivation, his resolve to stop at nothing to bring back his wife and end the Lords of Shadow, that made his end without his wife tragic. He saved the world but there was no eternal reward waiting for him. If that wasn't enough, he learned of another evil threatening the world, had to sacrifice by his own hand a young vampire girl who befriended him in his despair, and was forced to become a vampire in the process.

Gabriel had the weight of the world on his shoulders for the entirety of the first game, and it amounted to naught for him in the end. No wonder he's angry at the world and God. But this is what's missing in the second game. The only time his motivation for villainy is brought to light is when he's talking with the apparition of his wife, where he boldly exclaims how he will always be a thorn in God's side, but aside from him killing the family in the beginning, and taking out 500,000 Brotherhood knights, there's not much Dracula does to show, rather than tell, that he hates the world and God. This is the opposite of Mirror of Fate. When Trevor is forced to leave his family and is killed, when Simon's mother is murdered, and Dracula threatens both his vampire son and grandson, we could see that Dracula is bitter and doesn't care much for the world, even his own family, for crying out loud. We could tell of his legacy of blood by the way the three main characters talked about him and their motivations.

But since Dracula is not the villain in LOS2 as he was in MOF, there's no payoff for a redemption anyway. Instead, we have an anti-hero Dracula who teeters between a decent man who loves his family and someone who is bad for the sake of being bad. When Gabriel says to Satan how God cares about what's in their hearts, and will forgive them if they ask for it, that should have been the drive behind a redeemed Dracula: when he realizes that he does care about the world, about his family, and about God. Then his motivation to defeat Satan once and for all is clear: not only for revenge, but for eternal justice, to sacrifice what he had so that others wouldn't have to.

[Maedhros]

The problem with the first game (not really talking about if I think it's not Castlevania enough or not, so I'm just saying that as a generic action game) is that it overstays it's welcome. They should just cut the first 2 chapters from the game or make them A LOT smaller. Really, it's the worst part of the game.

When you finally get to the later chapter... I can say the game gets a lot better than expected. Some great boss fights (even though the gameplay is completely ridiculous and easy, even on the highest difficults). It's a bumpy road, but enjoyable, nonetheless.

The second one had at least half of a good game. They should have dropped the modern setting. Hell, the game should have been about the time just after the prologue. The modern setting is the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. If they made a game only inside the castle, it would be a lot better.

[JayDominus]

I don't think it was "so incredibly bad", but I gotta say it was pretty disappointing. In short:
The Pros
- The graphics are downright gorgeous
- The combat system is hella fun
- The music is also really amazingly good (sue me)
- The VAs are good
- Nearly all of the Castle is great (save for that one sequence)
- The bosses feel good
The Cons
- The writing is bad
- The ending is terribad
- Stealth
- Why can't I kill Golgoth guards? I should melt the f[bleep!]kers with Chaos Claws in no time!
- The city is mediocre, especially compared to the Castle

Overall, it feels like a Frankenstein's monster of a game, that alternates between gorgeous and horrible and suffers from a lack of direction. There are good design decisions and then there are idiotic ones. There are good story ideas and moments that can carry entire games on their own, but they aren't given enough time to blossom, they clash with each other and there are also really bad story moments. It's clearly evident that a lot of talented people worked on it... in conjunction with a lot less talented people. But I wouldn't call it outright bad.