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Offline AlexCalvo

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Ok so a few different threads here on the forum lately have talked about the idea of alternate timelines in the series.  This is of course aided greatly by the fact that we have several games that cannot fit with other games in the series due to continuity errors, leaving many to wonder if they fit together in their own separate universe, maybe even based on the different possible outcomes of games earlier in the timeline.  Finally throw Judgement into the mix with its time travel plot and inclusion of both canon and non-canon characters.

So this is my question, do you think Iga's building time travel sub-plot was meant to lead into exactly this idea we've been discussing?  Was Iga getting ready to set up a Castlevania multi-verse made up of different timelines, split possibly due to time traveling shenanigans, similar to the Back to the Future or Terminator franchises?

Absorb that into your head canons, what do you guys think?  How could it have been executed?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 10:15:13 PM by AlexCalvo »
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2016, 12:57:51 AM »
0
I believe he was aiming to do that, yes. For two reasons:

1. He expressed concern before about not being able to create anymore games with Dracula in them due to the 100 years rule.
2. Cornell in Judgment.

Building a multiple-timeline system is the perfect way to solve the "no more space in time to fit Dracula" issue. With a split timeline he'd be able not only to tell a completelly new story from any point in the main timeline, but could be stories that uses already created games' rules as base (Belmonts fighting Dracula, Vampire Killer, Simon is an important ancestor, etc etc). This way he'd not have to explain what happened before, because the before is a game that splits in two.

IGA has already said that Cornell exists, just on a "separate world with a similar world-view." This, on my mind at least, is clear confirmation that, if not split, there are at least separate timelines working in the same mindset.

One last thing is that St. Germain seems to come from a separate timeline where Hector turned into Dracula and became such a dangerous obstacle that it was necessary to travel there himself and stop Hector's efforts. What is that separate timeline meant to be? Where did it split off to?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 01:02:56 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2016, 02:14:02 AM »
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Yes for a few reasons:

1) Iga likes Cornell, Cornell appears in Judgement.
2) The Death from Judgement is more than likely from Cornell's timeline:
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,8577.msg189865.html#msg189865
3) Galamoth is a time traveller, he goes back in time to SOTN, and he's also made mention of in Judgement.
4) At least 1 separate timeline actually works imo:
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,8587.msg189956.html#msg189956
5) The main and parallel realities can actually cross over with one another at different intervals:
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,8575.0.html
This means that events could potentially all be happening at the same instance but the games are simply different outcomes to which events actually happen or don't happen. Judgement started dealing with the idea of this.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64        ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE     RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS
                                                                          v
                                                                          BE>*
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2016, 02:26:25 AM »
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Yes.

Aside from the reasons mentioned above, remember that Zelda was a major influence in igavania games, thus a multi-timeline system for CV makes sense too.

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2016, 04:24:24 AM »
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I'm going to be the killjoy and say "No". Then again, I have no idea where IGA was going with the time travel aspects, so I could very well be wrong.

Aside from that, I don't think there was much indication he was planning on doing something like that. There's Cornell's suprise appearance of course, but I think there are other ways of explaining that. Personally, I think IGA pulled a Lords of Shadow and put his own version of the character in Judgment. That way he could still have a werewolf character in his fighting game, while Legacy of Darkness still remained a gaiden.

However, that's not to say he couldn't have humored us at some point by going all-out and putting characters from various continuities in one big crossover. But maybe in that case it would be just simpler to say: "This character is from universe A, and that character is from universe B", and keep these universes completely unrelated aside from the crossover event. The reason for that being that, from what I've seen, a "multiverse system" usually requires little to no exposition on why it exists, and a "branching timeline system" usually needs to be established in some way. This can make things pretty complex. So I think I would personally go with the multiverse system, simply because then we can still have our fun with crossovers, while at the same time keeps things straightforward continuity-wise.         

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2016, 05:35:52 AM »
0
I'm going to be the killjoy and say "No". Then again, I have no idea where IGA was going with the time travel aspects, so I could very well be wrong.
Major killjoy, but we still love you :)

Personally, I think IGA pulled a Lords of Shadow and put his own version of the character in Judgment. That way he could still have a werewolf character in his fighting game, while Legacy of Darkness still remained a gaiden.

I think Iga just really liked Cornell. I thought there was an interview I read once (maybe EGM) where he was interviewed and he stated something to this effect.

Personally I always thought he'd in part re-used the idea of multiple eras/ times continuums from Castlevania: Resurrection.

In terms of alternate/ altering timelines I believe he was working on that partly as we saw in COD with Saint Germain prior to seeing Aeon and Judgement's plot. It was a way to integrate Cornell with other main characters from the series without having to give too much explanation. Why he chose Death, specifically from Cornell's timeline is beyond me, perhaps to give him more context and a direct link to one character (aside from Dracula himself who would obviously be from the main timeline). 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64        ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE     RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS
                                                                          v
                                                                          BE>*
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline beingthehero

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 04:33:14 PM »
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Jerkofwonder-kun <3

I agree with Naggermo. The time traveler angle in Judgment was just an excuse to bring everyone together across hundreds of years. And to be fair, he kept saying not to worry about the timeline in regards to that game.

On the other hand, I have no idea why St. Germaine was in Curse, since he didn't affect the plot other than act mysterious in a few cutscenes and have a time-themed boss battle. I imagine he was set up to reappear in the 1999 game. I always suspected the idea behind the Whip's Memory battle to unlock the VK  in Portrait was originally intended for the 1999 game, and Germaine would play some role in that.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 05:11:51 PM »
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@beingthehero

The reasons for St Germain
1) It's heavily implied that after the battle with SG Hector's destiny changed from being the original sacrifice(vessel) for Dracula's resurrection to not being that. SG even tells him he feels a new destiny flowing out of him. In the end Isaac was the next best suitor. Hector was supposed to kill Isaac and become the vessel but his destiny was altered in the scene where he says "Die Isaac... No it is not me, it's the curse.. Dracula's Curse!"
2) SG (the alchemy figure)was thought to have mastered Alchemy gaining eternal life. The previous consolevania was LOI where this was a main theme that assisted the plot.
3) he sets up the plot for 1999
4) reason one and his presence prior to CV Judgement could have opened up multiple and/or split timelines.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64        ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE     RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS
                                                                          v
                                                                          BE>*
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 07:53:39 PM »
+1
On the other hand, I have no idea why St. Germaine was in Curse, since he didn't affect the plot other than act mysterious in a few cutscenes and have a time-themed boss battle. I imagine he was set up to reappear in the 1999 game. I always suspected the idea behind the Whip's Memory battle to unlock the VK  in Portrait was originally intended for the 1999 game, and Germaine would play some role in that.

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Offline AlexCalvo

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https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline AlexCalvo

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https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline uzo

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 01:56:58 PM »
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Read this.

Damn, man. That actually makes a ton of sense. Great read.

Offline knightmere

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Re: Was Iga going to use the time group to make separate timelines?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2016, 08:58:07 AM »
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wrong topix
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 08:59:46 AM by knightmere »

Tags: Timeline IGA theories