Um you have to consider that Maria is capable of mastering all weapons and all magic. and she is no less powerful than Firion, Guy and Leon, especially when they fought Hell Emperor at the top of Castle Pandemonium.
no, she's capable of mastering all weapons and magic within the world of 2, and is not privy to any of the weapons or magic that became newly introduced in every game following 2--very big difference there
she also doesn't get brownie points for being able to master skills--that mechanic is universal for literally every character in the game, and is not unique to maria in any capacity, she's just another regular old human who can learn to become masterful at various modes of combat
Maria would mop the floor with Terra. FFVI characters do not have weapon masteries. well yes, they can summon Espers,
but Maria can become so powerful, that Esper power is trivial compared to the raw capabilities FFII's main characters can achieve in the gameplay and lore.
now Esper form Terra, it could be debatable. Terra can become really powerful and lore wise, she can fly too. so ok, let's just let it be a tie.
no, she actually wouldn't, because regardless of her "mastery" she's still only human
remember how it took an entire party of people with extremely specified abilities to take down espers in 6? or how, short of kefka being a cheater with his own magic, nobody else could really hold off an esper attack?
maria on her own doesn't get win points purely because the FF2 people have a "ability mastery" mechanic and FF6 people don't--reminder that "oh well espers can't compare to being a master with a sword and axe and flare XVI" doesn't actually mean anything considering espers themselves are literal demigods from another reality, a reality i will remind you that was the origin of magic in the first place via the triad
maria could know all the spells in 2 and be a master at all of them--it won't matter much lorewise because knowing a shitload of magic and being really proficient with it is just another day of the week for espers
and super no to "it's a tie"--esper terra would leave no trace of her, assuming esper terra is in full control over herself in that state
Rydia is a summoner, but even like Seifer proven in FF8, even powerful summons can fall to raw physical damage.
so I feel Maria could defeat Rydia with all sorts of builds, plus FFII magic is a game changer and can level beyond any other Final Fantasy magic spells.
reminder that rydia's "raw" ability was so great that the entire realm of eidolons--4's version of the esper world from 6, so the same rules of esper/eidolon power listed above apply here as well--took her under their care and taught her years' worth of new skills and knowledge
as for seifer, the GFs in 8 don't really get the same kind of treatment as the espers and eidolons of games past; they're not demigod entities from another realm of immense power anymore so much as protective guardians
if you can corral one in to literally act as a training dummy for combat practice (ifrit), then they're not super-beings from another dimension with godlike power
and considering all seifer did was quite literally counter the zantetsuken and use it against odin, it's not really all that impressive from the stance of how strong or weak a given summon is--seifer somehow learned the "instakills almost anything if it succeeds" move and used it against a summoned entity, nothing terribly special there beyond the notion that he learned a summon's signature move (really makes you wonder why he didn't just use it in the fight immediately following and end the game right there, huh?)
Garnet and Eiko. same case. she has powerful summons, but Maria and friends destroyed entities that rival even summons (like Astaroth).
yeah, uh, i could go on a whole tangent about the summoner race of madain sari and their significance and power within the world of 9, but all i really have to point to is the simple fact that the two of them can summon an eidolon that's the size of a massive fucking city
9's alexander vs astaroth? astaroth's fucking dead, not even close in the slightest
and besides, why does astaroth's strength matter if maria can just master all the weapons and spells and instantly be able to win any fight no matter what? that's basically your point, so why are you backtracking on it and suggesting that a powerful boss would in any way pose a threat or challenge to Maria Sue of Invincibility?
could it be your point isn't as strong as you think it is? hm,
i wonderFran can use espers, but combat wise, she really doesnt have any more advantage than Maria at her peak. though Viera do have physical advantages, shes in for a tough fight against Maria, even with Fran at her best.
i'll be honest, i never played a lot of 12 or know terribly much about it, i merely listed fran as a primary female character who's a bit of a badass, so you may be onto something here
but considering how hard the rest of your argument falls flat on its face, i doubt you actually are onto anything regarding fran
Celes is weaker than Terra at her most powerful, Maria can solo Hell Emperor, and physically Maria has the range advantage too, even if we were to negate spell advantages.
maria's a normal human who's really good at a few things, celes is a genetically bio-engineered supersoldier using the power of espers, which as i've noted are regarded almost as demigods in the lore of 6 where their powers are concerned
maria might have mastered the sword and know Fire XXII, but can she magic sword? i didn't think so, takes a whole different caliber of ability to learn multiple things separately than it does to learn multiple things and join them into something new
and again, everyone in 2 works the same way mechanically, maria can solo the emperor as can literally everyone else if you master their shit high enough, this point is a fucking joke and should be discarded for its utter worthlessness
Rosa, Rinoa...... they can be powerful, but Maria can defeat them even with mastered fists and magic build.
rosa can also wield a bow and has access to every white spell in the game, and doesn't need to grind for mastery to get them to actually be worth using
maria can wield a bow and has access to every spell in her own game, but needs to mastery grind for combat value to the spells
this is one that i would actually say has the potential to be a tie, but considering that rosa is
geared solely as a white mage compared to maria, essentially, being simply a really powerful red mage, that in the end rosa's got her beat as she can buff and heal with more efficacy compared to maria, who'll likely be spending mana on more than simply white spells
if both of them stuck purely with white spells and bows, then we have a possible tie on our hands, otherwise i'm gonna edge a tiny bit more into rosa's corner on account of her likelihood of being able to outlast maria's own ability to heal up and buff
anyway, rinoa
two little things about rinoa:
-she has angelo, fight's over because pupper automatically wins
-her power as a sorceress is such that she can pull someone out of a place where time is compressed and doesn't actually exist
think real fucking hard about that second one for a minute
maria is a standard human who can get really good at standard spells, but she isn't a literal sorceress (beings who, in the lore of 8, were of such power that they ruled without question for a very long time until a revolution occurred against adel, who i should mention couldn't actually be "beaten" by anyone involved and had to instead be cryogenically sealed and shot into fucking space in order to pacify her as a threat)
is maria of a race so powerful that ordinary humans have to imprison a really strong one in the fucking vacuum of space to get them out of their hair? can maria's mastery of Poison and Ice and Flare and Haste resurrect and recover someone who's trapped in a place beyond the fabric of time itself?
no?
then rinny's got her number, plain and simple
Selphie is broken with that limit break, but the thing is, chances are Maria can destroy Selphie before Selphie even gets her ultimate limit break. the only way Selphie could win is via a fluke. that limit break has a very low % of appearing.
the end might have a low occurrence rate (though this CAN be made to be different and get it to appear more--aura+mashing triangle+high luck and scrolling until it shows up, anyone?), but we're not arguing actual practical statistics, remember? we're arguing that maria is a literal master at everything she can do, so since that's the place your argument's coming from, then i'm gonna presume mine from a standpoint where every ability is on the table whether it's got a high rate of use or not
don't like that? then construct better arguments, because this "bad argument backed up by run on sentences that use fangirlism as defenses instead of actual trains of thought that have some measure of rationality" shit is getting real fucking tiresome
also, selphie likes trains, does maria like trains? oh wait, 2 doesn't have trains
yeah, maria gets run over by a train. piloted by selphie. because why the fuck not.
Edea is not up to Maria's top level.
see argument about the sorceress race, and consider that edea's powers are literally those of ultimecia, transferred to edea upon her death
remember, ultimecia's the one who compressed time and possessed someone for months or years on end from an unknown but vast distance in the future--can maria's mastered Shell XXXMVCIIIVMCVIIII do that?
no, i didn't fucking think so
Beatrix. hahahaha. no. Beatrix doesnt stand a chance.
oh, you mean beatrix, the chick who has a move that instantly puts you at 1HP and ends the fight regardless of what your stats or abilities are? the beatrix who you never actually "beat" any of the multiple times you fight her? the beatrix with ridiculous speed and ATB time that allows her to use any of her almost-oneshot special moves (including a variant of the 1HP instamove that doesn't end the fight immediately) one right after the other? that beatrix?
whoops. guess someone fangirled so hard she forgot how the mechanics of 9 and beatrix's fight actually work
Yuna, well her X-2 version can be pretty formidable. I would say it could be a tie.
last i checked yuna was a summoner of such power that you actually had to kill each and every one of her summons before they could go out and unleash havoc, such was their power
last i checked yuna was among those who essentially killed their world's equivalent of "god"
last i checked maria only was among those who killed their world's equivalent of "satan"
last i checked "god" is supposed to be more powerful than "satan"
this is a silly way to phrase it, i admit, but frankly i don't see how a really skilled human is on-par with (let alone being able to believably beat in a fight) someone who can summon actual demigods and has to murder them when they go corrupt so their power doesn't wreck everything's shit
Shantotto. ok it would be a tough fight.
you made this thread. you've played dissidia. the obnoxious little mage bitch wins in a landslide victory because maria's never gonna be able to even fucking
hit her
but saying Hilda is more powerful. let's be serious, Hilda would have been defeated by Emperor's forces if it wasnt for the FFII heroes, including Maria.
and 1 on 1, Maria can destroy Hilda and her whole army.
no, she couldn't, otherwise they'd just send maria after the emperor instead of everyone they do send
and i see you completely missed what the mention and comparison of hilda was actually about, though given the intensity of the blinders you seem to wear at all times this doesn't surprise me in the slightest
we are talking 100% potential Maria here. She can rival or surpass other characters in the series.
she isnt simply a bow user. Maria is just as capable of defeating all adversity and becoming super powerful.
and she can easily reach broken OP tier like certain other characters can.
once again, the "maria" aspect doesn't fucking matter
everyone in 2 can all reach the same levels of mastery in everything, so guy and firion and kain are all theoretically just as "powerful" as maria, so stop acting like the fact she has a vagina somehow makes her better than all the other characters with whom she shares equal stat growth mechanics
and no, she doesn't instantly become immune to everything because you mastered all the weapons and spells
do you wanna send me a full playthrough you've done of maria only from start to finish and never had her die or take damage once? because i'll wait for you to do that (though i'll be waiting quite a while, probably indefinitely)
because unless you wanna go and do that to back up your claim, this particular point is as worthless as several others
oh, maria can use Flare XVI and has the blood sword? let's see how well those do against 7's meteor, or 8's time compression, or 9's ultima (which was used to
literally destroy an entire fucking planet and which instantly KOs the party and ends the fight when used outside of cutscenes, by the way), or kefka after acquiring the literal source of literally all magic and becoming a literal god with the very real abilities to literally apocalypse and reshape the literal fucking planet he's standing on, or a really pissed-off bhunivelze, or an evil demon tree wizard literally erasing reality at will
oh, wait. a really strong flare spell and the blood sword probably aren't gonna be enough to guarantee victory against any of those with Totally Definitely Invincible Maria fighting them all by her little self
if you still think Maria is just a badass with a bow, I recommend researching FFII and what she and the other characters are fully capable of.
FFII masteries system is one of a kind in the series, magic can be leveled beyond other FFs wildest dreams, and anyone can master every weapon,
being able to destroy enemies before they even get a turn, and be next to invincible.
please, tell me more about my favorite entry in the series and make retarded assumptions about what someone does and doesn't know
doesn't make you look like a complete fucking tool who doesn't actually know how to argue or anything
please, tell me more about my favorite fucking entry in the FF series in which i have probably hundreds of hours logged
go the fuck ahead, affinity dear, since you're so keen on assuming i don't know what i'm talking about...yeah, that's what i thought
don't assume shit next time, please and thank you
Maria is also the strongest spiritually. other female characters go absent for a time (practically every other female character in the series),
others gave up until someone motivated her to fight on (Terra),
whereas Maria was fighting through the entire adventure alongside the protagonist and never gave up.
this has nothing to do with her actual practical combat ability, so it's moot
nice try at fabricating an irrelevant point to defend your shitty argument when you realized you had no leg to stand on, though
the only female character that fought as much or more than Maria did, was Lightning, however Lightning was not even consistent in her active role until Lightning Returns. in XIII-1, Lightning was sometimes the protagonist, and other times the baton is handed to someone else (and it was not Lightning narrating the story, it was Vanille! lol. even Serah got to narrate her own adventure, though Lightning did get some narration in XIII-2 and LR was all hers).
lightning's just a badass soldier gal who went superhuman with the brand, became demigod envoy to an actual goddess and her realm, took a crystal nap for a bit, and went on to be handpicked by Literally God to become a Literal Goddess herself, and proceeded to put Literally God out of commission (but not actually kill him, as the game itself states)
oh, but wait
when she made Literally God take an indefinite nap she had the help of, literally, all her friends and the collective souls of an entire planet backing her, without which she would have guaranteed to either lose the fight or fall into chaos, or both, considering they copypaste the "claire you don't have to be an aloof bitch all the time you have friends for fuck's sake that can help you with shit" plotline again from the first game, only this time it has the fate of all fucking humanity on the line BECAUSE STAKES
whoops, guess light's just a bona fide badass that still needs her posse from time to time to bail her ass out of trouble and isn't actually the big tough lone wolf she used to think she was
side note, i really can't expound on the power of espers and magic in 6 enough
like, i'd have loved to bring the triad into it more but it wasn't topically relevant beyond a casual mention of them earlier, but the triad are of such power that fucking with their arrangement can (and does) destabilize the entire planet/fabric of reality
and a sociopsychopath with an eternal raging hardon for killing fools completely takes their power away from them to become an actual, literal, bona fide god
and he does
and you think your little human girl who has straight A's on her "combat basics" exams can beat this on her own
no, affinity, just no
between goner and havoc wing, to say nothing of heartless angel, your girl's more likely to die repeatedly than she is to score a flawless victory
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so basically in conclusion what this all boils down to is that the sheer idiocy of your half-baked fangirl squeefest """""arguments""""" are never worth what you think they are when confronted with an actual argument that has some semblance of structure to it
you've reached a point of such lunacy that i'm quite tempted to simply chalk all of your odd and obnoxious behaviors lately up to simply being a low-effort, low-hanging fruit of a board troll who tries way too hard to piss off and irritate people (but winds up doing so for completely different reasons than intended)
i'm really tempted, i well and truly am
except i've been around the internet for quite some time, and have seen honest to god fanboy/girlism of such magnitude that the people in question are all but completely incapable of accepting any other reality than the one they've made up for themselves in their heads, and when confronted with alternatives or conflicting ones they merely throw all of their fansquee into bloated paragraphs roughly resembling an attempt at an argument, but when they are inevitably outargued they just throw up more and more and more mindless prattle until the other parties opt to give up a pointless and never-ending battle, at which point the almost-laughably delusional fanboy/girl takes this throwing-in of the towel as an overwhelming victory for their garbage """""argument""""" and then proceed to strut around in various other places and threads as if their shit doesn't stink and they're so much more enlightened than everyone else there
and honestly, this assessment of what i've seen in the past lines up pretty damn closely to how you've been acting lately
so i'mma trust my gut on this one until proven otherwise and denounce the possibility that you're just a really tryhard troll who only succeeds in annoying people by the sheet ineptitude of the yammering fangirlings you constantly post
because all the proof i need to validate to myself that you're just a deluded fangirl with serious inabilities to interact with or construct arguments against people with opposing or different views on your favorite things will be the inevitable long-ass post continuing to try and disprove all of what i've said in this post and (most likely) insult the ever-loving shitfuck out of me as so many people on this board have done when i decide to stop playing nice and lay into them in this sort of fashion and they can't handle either being laid into or can't handle hearing the word "fuck" more than once per thread page like this is a fucking PG13 movie or something
so go ahead
make your longass post of yet more rubbish drivel telling me how wrong and sexist and mean and ignorant and what an asshole fuckwaffle i am
just remember, you're in the game of making overly long textwall arguments with
me, my friend
and i don't tend to lose that game