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Offline X

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2018, 05:30:45 PM »
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The later "Metroidvania" heroes may have had more special attacks and magical trick, but the earlier heroes like Simon and Trevor were better at traversing the castle.  They didn't need to go find new techniques and alternate passages, they'd just kick down the door and keep going.

You mean like this?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZ_M0w8xKs
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 05:32:49 PM by X »
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Offline Partial Blooverine

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2018, 08:29:12 PM »
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Why is Franklin who knows his shoesso tired he does not?
dracula a big dood

too big to exist

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2018, 04:33:26 AM »
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After talking with PlotTwist, I think it'd be cool if one of the priests who heal Simon in Castlevania 2 turned out to be one of Grant's descendants.

Maybe they can allude to that in the epilogue of the Netflix series.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2018, 07:41:12 AM »
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Here's a good one:

Did anyone else involved in the battle of 1999 ever bothered to search of Julius afterwards? And if so, why did no one manage to find him for 36 years?

I suppose the easiest answer is because everyone thought he was dead, so they didn't bother looking. 

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2018, 10:25:22 AM »
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In a modern-day world with digital information at one's fingertips I seriously doubt Julius could not be found unless he was purposely hidden away. Maybe by the organization Alucard works for, or by the church Yoko is in affiliated with.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 01:53:30 PM »
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Here's a good one:

Did anyone else involved in the battle of 1999 ever bothered to search of Julius afterwards? And if so, why did no one manage to find him for 36 years?

I suppose the easiest answer is because everyone thought he was dead, so they didn't bother looking. 

In a modern-day world with digital information at one's fingertips I seriously doubt Julius could not be found unless he was purposely hidden away. Maybe by the organization Alucard works for, or by the church Yoko is in affiliated with.

Honestly, I'm on Nagumo's side with this. I think that it's not really all that complicated. Hell, it could even be some combination of both: the people looking for him completely missed him because they were too doggedly chasing down a conspiracy theory that he was being actively hidden and kind of missed the forest for the trees as a result.

Julius lost his memory, and it's implied that it was a pretty total loss prior to Aria of Sorrow: dude legit had no idea who he was until he was summoned to Dracula's Castle, which begins the process of his recovery.

If the memory loss resulted in a total loss of his own sense of identity, he wouldn't much behave like the Julius anybody had known. This can manifest in a different appearance too -- his sense of grooming may have changed (at least at first), his style of dress, personal mannerisms, his mode of speech -- these are all things total or near total amnesia can significantly alter because like everything else about us, they are heavily tied to our life experiences. Wiping those experiences out "resets the board", and J and Julius Belmont would very likely have been incredibly different people as a result; it's most likely that the reason J resembles Julius more by the time Soma meets him is because smaller, less obvious memories had already begun to return: that influence from his proximity to the whip and the Castle itself was already being felt.

If Julius really had lost most of his memory, it's entirely possible that someone who knew him in 1999 could have walked right past him on the sidewalk in 2029 and not recognized him at all. Just think of how much trouble we can have recognizing old friends we haven't seen in five or more years who do remember who they are and exaggerate that over a longer span with someone who doesn't even remember how to act like themselves and you'll start to see the issue at hand.

With amnesia in play, anyone looking for Julius Belmont (especially Julius Belmont himself) was going to face one hell of an uphill battle before they found him.

I am not surprised in the slightest that he hadn't shown up on anybody's radar prior to Aria.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:58:04 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 04:39:19 PM »
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So I find myself wondering what specific order of Knights Leon Belmont belonged to. Probably something fictional, but the heraldry on his tunic as a knight makes me wonder since it does resemble several (chronologically later) real world groups.

An obvious inspiration is from the Societas Draconistarum, Order of the Dragon, to which the real world Vlad III (and his father before him) belonged.

I'm gonna study up on heraldry and see if anything equivalent turns up in Germany and France. BRB.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline X

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 06:14:52 PM »
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So I find myself wondering what specific order of Knights Leon Belmont belonged to.

Interesting thought. His outfit doesn't say much except for all the blue crosses and Dragon sigil on his chest. It could be a mercenary outfit since in-game he mentions 'the company' and not a specific branch of the church nor order.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 06:21:07 PM by X »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2018, 07:21:11 PM »
+1
Interesting thought. His outfit doesn't say much except for all the blue crosses and Dragon sigil on his chest. It could be a mercenary outfit since in-game he mentions 'the company' and not a specific branch of the church nor order.

I always assumed when he said company, he meant it in the sense of military organization, as in 3-6 platoons and Leon and Mathias had been the ones in command. Mercenaries weren't considered "companies" until closer to the modern era -- in the 17th century you really start to see the rise of proper Private Military Companies, and in the 18th, they had become fairly common sights around Europe, for instance the Hessians deployed by the British during the American revolution followed a more centralized corporate structure.

During Leon's time, mercenaries tended to be considered only slightly above Brigands in terms of honor (more of an ugly necessity of war and not something you'd look forward to joining), and as a Baron, Leon wouldn't have wasted his reputation by associating with them.

I got a book on heraldry, btw. It's kind of a droll read, but I will let you know if I find anything, though I don't expect it to really mean anything.

One thing I CAN say for certain is the tincture (color palette) on Leon's knightly garment, with lots of blues and whites and a touch of red, is VERY common to the French knightly traditions, which just further bolsters my theory that Leon was probably French.

Not that it matters much -- I just enjoy deducing these sorts of details.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline X

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 10:05:28 AM »
+2
Believe it or not Knights evolved out of mercenaries employed by chieftains and/or other rulers. The earliest it goes back to is the 800s AD, and from that point mercs evolved and became knights by the 1100s AD. However knights still acted very much like their merc counterparts. If it wasn't for The tales of King Arthur written back in the 12th century then chivalry would have most likely not become a part of the knights' way of life.

I also found this which might help:

Mercenary groups first appeared in the 12th century, when they participated in the Anarchy (a conflict of succession between King Stephen and the Empress Matilda between 1137 and 1153).

In the 1180s, similar groups were integrated into the armies of the King of France under Philip II of France. These troops of seasoned mercenaries were organized and mobile, a valuable advantage during the battles of the time and were important elements of the armies of Henry II of England and his son, Richard I. King John, used them at the beginning of his reign, when he was richer and more powerful than the King of France. However, in 1204, he did not pay the mercenaries. Philip Augustus used them to overcome the Plantagenets.


The Tard-Venus pillage Grammont in 1362, from Froissart's Chronicles.
During the Hundred Years War between England and France there were intermittent hostilities punctuated by periods of truce, when soldiers would be laid off en masse. In the absence of civilian skills and opportunities many, especially the foreign soldiers, formed armed bands known as bandes de routiers or écorcheurs and made a living by pillaging the countryside of southern France until hostilities resumed. Similar events occurred in Spain and Germany. By the time of the Treaty of Brétigny (1360) the bands had grown in size to the point where they had evolved an internal structure and adopted romantic names. The Tards-venus (late-comers), led by Seguin de Badefol ravaged Burgundy and Languedoc and even defeated the forces of the Kingdom of France at the Battle of Brignais in 1362.

The Catalan Company, formed in Spain in the early 1300s, fought in the Byzantine Empire before ending up in what is now Greece and the Navarrese Company, also formed in Spain, which followed them there.

By 1356, free companies, men at arms, and brigands had spread throughout the country from the Seine to the Loire engaging in unlawful activities. They had especially infested the roads from Paris to Orleans, Chartres, Vendôme, and Montargis.


So I guess it's clear that Leon isn't from a mercenary company given the date in which LoI takes place. Nevertheless he is one -in a very small sense- as knights evolved from them of a long period of time.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:08:53 AM by X »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »
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Nice find!

So the date of 1098 AD really puts a cramp in possibilities, though the First Crusade evidently starts a few years early in Castlevanialand, so these other dates of founding can probably be adjusted a bit to compensate.

So the Military Orders which existed at or around the time were the Order of the Holy Sepulchre (f. 1099), the Order of Saint James of Altopascio (f. between 1070-1080), and the Knights Hospitaller (f. 1099).

If Leon did belong to a Military Order, only the Order of Saint James would have 100% existed without any doubt before Leon went to Eternal Night to confront Walter. They do sound like something he would have gotten behind as well:

Quote
The Order of Saint James of Altopascio (Italian: Ordine di San Giacomo d'Altopascio or Ordine dei Frati Ospitalieri di San Jacopo), also called the Knights of the Tau (Cavalieri del Tau) or Hospitallers of Saint James, was a military order, perhaps the earliest Christian institution to combine the protection and assistance of pilgrims, the staffing of hospitals, and a military wing. According to American historian Ephraim Emerton, who produced the first systematic study of the Order, "the fame of the house drew visitors, both well and sick, including women in childbirth and infants" from around Italy.[1]

Since their colors are Gold and White, I think it's far more likely that Leon's knightly colors are from his own coat of arms rather than indicative of a military order -- and heraldry was very new at the time so there's no guarantee it would follow the rules in my book (which was printed in the 1890's).

Given the Order's reputation being quite sterling and widespread at the time, I could easily see how it would have attracted Mathias as well, probably for the same reasons.

So, I'm convinced enough by this to consider it plausible that Leon and Mathias were members of the Order of Saint James even though neither one of them is Italian. OSJ actually did have chapters throughout western and central Europe as well irl, but that would have been about a century after Leon's time.

Again, these are details I don't expect any of the production staff to have actually considered, so I think this may be as close as it gets guys.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 02:07:24 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 12:33:07 AM »
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Interesting reads on the evolution of knights.

I think the production team just let Ayami Kojima decide which colors to use. So maybe it went like this. "Oh, his clothes have to match with Sara who is kinda gonna be a Virgin Mary trope." = blue and white

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 05:05:35 AM »
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Interesting reads on the evolution of knights.

I think the production team just let Ayami Kojima decide which colors to use. So maybe it went like this. "Oh, his clothes have to match with Sara who is kinda gonna be a Virgin Mary trope." = blue and white

Most likely but that's also not very interesting.

And there's no reason Leon COULDN'T be Order of Saint James, which is more interesting than "character designer's creative license".
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 09:58:45 AM »
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The only issue here is that Leon's knightly outfit doesn't have any of the sigils that one would recognise as being with the order of Saint James. For this I'd have to say creative license was used when designing his outfit.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Shower Thoughts: Castlevania Edition
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 02:46:43 PM »
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The only issue here is that Leon's knightly outfit doesn't have any of the sigils that one would recognise as being with the order of Saint James. For this I'd have to say creative license was used when designing his outfit.

Order of Saint James actually didn't have any sort of uniform until the First Crusade was well underway, so it's more than likely that the Blue Dragon on a field of White is Leon's personal heraldry, and that does actually match Leon's character traits.

In Heraldry, the color Blue is associated with Truth and Loyalty -- these are things Leon cares very much about: loyalty could actually be his most prominent personal value throughout Lament of Innocence. And of course, the unravelling of Mathias' lies and the great reveal of him as the Mastermind is a recurring plot element.

White is associated with Peace and Sincerity -- which connects to Truth as well as highlighting his relationship with Sara.

The Dragon itself is a symbol of the Defender, linked with Valour in battle and Protection.

The blue crosses on his tunic closely resemble a combination of Cross fitchée, a combination of cross and swords which symbolizes unshakeable faith, and cross formée, where the arms of the cross narrow as they get closer to the center, which indicates honorable military service. Both of those are highly important to Leon.

Son of a bitch. Ayami Kojima saw me coming after all.

Yeah, there's no WAY that these are anything BUT Leon's personal colors and heraldry.

I think at this point we should consider Ayami Kojima is an even better character designer than we have ever given her credit for, and that's saying something because over the years, we've given her a LOT of credit.

This has been a super fun rabbit hole to jump down.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:48:30 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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