Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[e105beta]

Do note also - just because a game has a bigger budget doesn't mean it won't suck or be a disappointment. Case in point, Resident Evil 5. It didn't suck bad, but it didn't live up to its hype and was a huge disappointment despite its long development and big budget.

IMO, Resident Evil 5 was actually one of the most fun games in ages. I was in no way, shape, or form disappointed by it.

It depends I suppose on how bad it flops. Cv has been around for over 20 years now so I dont think konami would just abandon it. They might put it on the backburner for a while and return to the drawing board to see what they need to do to make it successful.

The problem is that it has been around for 20 years, and unlike Mario, the name Castlevania doesn't sell games alone. They've done enough iterations of the game at this point, that's just wishful thinking. The game used to be A-List, and now, after a fighting game, a bunch of Metroidvanias, a failed attempt at 3D, and a underselling report of an older Classicvania, I would be in now way surprised if they dropped it. It would probably be more productive for them as a company to start a new IP.

And I hope nobody misinterprets me as saying that the series doesn't need change...it definitely does. But the series can incorporate change without being derivative of other games. It can set itself apart from other franchises. If it doesn't, then what's the point at all?

Not to sound snide, but I've yet to see anyone suggest an actual idea for this change that's not LoS, just what they think LoS is doing wrong. It's easy to b**** when you're just the one who plays the games, but for the developers trying to make money while being creative at the same time, it's hard. Art alone rarely sells.

[Lumas]

You know whats going to suck is that there are a lot of "fans" who are going to play this game and look for shit to complain about. So get ready for that shit storm.

Also I dont play mario games.

[RichterB]

...Also I don't think Kojima Productions is going to let this game flop for many reasons one being their reputation is on the line...

I think LoS fate will affect the whole of the franchise Castlevania, yes.

But food for thought: Capcom has Devil May Cry, SCEA has God of War, Tecmo has Ninja Gaiden...Konami has...well, Castlevania?

I think Konami really, really wants their own DMC, GoW, NG, and this is an interesting opportunity to do that for them.

Question 1: Is Castlevania as a whole the same as these franchises? Should we expect Castlevania to reflect those series? (Or is Castlevania an outlier, like Mario, Mega Man and the like--often copied, but never duplicated).

Question 2: Is LoS maybe trying to be a bit pretentious? Do you expect Castlevania to be as story-centric as a Metal Gear Solid, with well-known Hollywood actors?

(As an aside, Dave Cox has said he felt while playing God of War for the first time that that was what 3D Castlevania should have been like. Furthermore, I fear that Konami in the future might decide they want a Gears of War, and decide that Contra is the same as that kind of game...which is not).

[JR]

Not to sound snide, but I've yet to see anyone suggest an actual idea for this change that's not LoS, just what they think LoS is doing wrong. It's easy to b**** when you're just the one who plays the games, but for the developers trying to make money while being creative at the same time, it's hard. Art alone rarely sells.

Yeah, but they're the ones tasked with coming up with the ideas, not the gamer. I never intended to imply that coming up with an original idea is easy; I'm just hoping the game ends up standing on its own, and not being too derivative of DMC, God of War, etc. If they just imitated other popular games like that, it would be a pretty cynical approach to reestablishing the Castlevania name, and somewhat of a wasted attempt, IMO.

[e105beta]

Yeah, but they're the ones tasked with coming up with the ideas, not the gamer. I never intended to imply that coming up with an original idea is easy; I'm just hoping the game ends up standing on its own, and not being too derivative of DMC, God of War, etc. If they just imitated other popular games like that, it would be a pretty cynical approach to reestablishing the Castlevania name, and somewhat of a wasted attempt, IMO.

Alright, I just wanted to put that out there.
I personally don't think it looks like an imitation, so I'm fine with what they're doing. If somebody isn't they don't have to buy it.

[Lumas]

I think LoS fate will affect the whole of the franchise Castlevania, yes.

But food for thought: Capcom has Devil May Cry, SCEA has God of War, Tecmo has Ninja Gaiden...Konami has...well, Castlevania?

I think Konami really, really wants their own DMC, GoW, NG, and this is an interesting opportunity to do that for them.

Question 1: Is Castlevania as a whole the same as these franchises? Should we expect Castlevania to reflect those series? (Or is Castlevania an outlier, like Mario, Mega Man and the like--often copied, but never duplicated).

Question 2: Is LoS maybe trying to be a bit pretentious? Do you expect Castlevania to be as story-centric as a Metal Gear Solid, with well-known Hollywood actors?

(As an aside, Dave Cox has said he felt while playing God of War for the first time that that was what 3D Castlevania should have been like. Furthermore, I fear that Konami in the future might decide they want a Gears of War, and decide that Contra is the same as that kind of game...which is not).

I can agree with that. Konami really doesn't have its own fast paced action game like many other gaming companies and to add Sega now has Bayonetta.

Answer 1: I personally think Castlevania should stand on its own but must be able to keep up with the times if it hopes to survive as a series in this day and age. I'm sorry but it has enough 2d games under its belt and it must move on to prove itself as an A list game. I really hope it raises the bar in that type of genre so much so it establishes itself as both a fast paced action game as well as making a name for itself so that it may stand on its own.

Answer 2: Personally I would like to see Castlevania be more story centric though not to the extent of MGS. I really dont wanna watch an hour of cut scenes lol. But Cox has already stated there wont be long drawn out cut scenes so it looks like they are giving us a good story, well written but to the point.

Answer 3: C

Answer 4: If Cox doesn't come out with something new with this game soon he will have more to fear then Kojima strapping him into ocelot's toture device and making him rapidly press the action button to regain his strength. I'm growing impatient.

[Gunlord]

I wonder if Mr. Cox has played Demon's Souls yet? That game really gave me a Castlevania-ish vibe, at least in terms of ambience, level design, and some of the muzak, particularly False King's boss fight theme.

[The Silverlord]

The name Castlevania doesn't sell games alone ... the game used to be A-List ... after a fighting game, a bunch of Metroidvanias, a failed attempt at 3D, and a underselling report of an older Classicvania, I would be in now way surprised if they dropped it.  It would probably be more productive for them as a company to start a new IP.

Lords of Shadow was an opportunity to do that.  A fresh start, a clean perspective, an invitation to reach out to new gamers, no inhibitions, no gamer pre-conceptions, no necessary pampering to the CV faithful, no shoehorning of elements to appease a minority.  Many CV fans had seen Lords of Shadow when it was portrayed as a new IP and had a good idea if they liked the idea or not then: were we not a good start in terms of Konami having an audience to draw on?

Regarding the branding, I've hedged my bets on IGA's "Alucard"/3D game/demo not making a good enough impression within Konami, but maybe it's simply that Castlevania has its place in the beating inner heart of the company.  There's not only Cox putting forward his case, but you've got the likes of Akihiko Nagata and Kazumi Kitaue (created/produced/led Castlevania) high up in Konami.  I don't think they'd want to see the series disappear or go under; they'd want the best for it.

It must have taken a fair bit of nerve to farm out to a European developer in the first place though.

[Nagumo]

Why would anyone even want it a part of the continuity. At this point, any game is going to be just another forced explanation of the time line, no more significant than any other.

This has always been the case as long as I can remember. Why stop now? 

No matter how epic in scope the game is, it would just be ANOTHER time Dracula is easily killed, and too much story experimentation would be hugely restricted by the convoluted series history.

An easy way to avoid that is to just leave Dracula out of it this time. They already did it with HoD, AoS, and DoS which worked perfectly fine. The game already has the perfect date for a standalone Castlevania story; before the feud between Dracula and the Belmonts even started. They only thing they have to do is have someone else taking over Dracula's role as main villian and the game could fit right in. And even if they want to make possible sequels they could always make up stories that feature Gabriel again or just work back, moving on to his ancestors instead of his descendants. In order to avoid that the storylines of these respective games will clash with the era's of Leon and Trevor (or any other part of the timeline). Easy peasy.

It's cool and stuff that they want to create an AU but if this becomes a popular trend with the Castlevania series, I don't see how people are going to be less confused about the series' storyline then they are now. That would 1986-2002 all over again when nobody had a frickin' clue which game took place when and how they were connected. I hope IGA will end this madness and just include the game into the main timeline when he has the chance.                                     

[shelverton.]

That would 1986-2002 all over again when nobody had a frickin' clue which game took place when and how they were connected.                                  

That was actually a fantastic period for Castlevania if you ask me. Never once did I care, I just played every game on its own. But sure, if IGA can find a spot for LoS in his timeline, I'm all for it. I am also for TWO separate timelines. The LoS timeline could possibly connect with CotM and Legends, but that is unlikely to happen.

[Sindra]

IMO, Resident Evil 5 was actually one of the most fun games in ages. I was in no way, shape, or form disappointed by it.

I liked certain parts of the game, but overall it was a disappointment after RE4 swept everyone's expectations. Don't get me started on what they did with Wesker either. *snarl*


And LordofShadows, I am probably one of the only people who actually give a damn about storyline. Maybe it's because I like writing and having everything flow a certain way. I can't really say why, honestly. I just like knowing how something got from point A to point B and everything that happened in between to make sense. I guess that's why I care about whether or not its in its own continuity. (might also have to do with being a big comic book fan)

[e105beta]

I liked certain parts of the game, but overall it was a disappointment after RE4 swept everyone's expectations. Don't get me started on what they did with Wesker either. *snarl*

I adored what they did with Wesker.

[Sindra]

I adored what they did with Wesker.

Seriously?? They turned him into a generic megalomaniac Darwinist instead of the cunning Chessmaster he was in previous games, then killed him off in a pretty cheap way that was totally not befitting a antagonist of his caliber.

Argg....

[Munchy]

Seriously?? They turned him into a generic megalomaniac Darwinist instead of the cunning Chessmaster he was in previous games, then killed him off in a pretty cheap way that was totally not befitting a antagonist of his caliber.

Argg....

GLOBAL. SATURATION.

Yeah, I hope RE6 is actually scary for once. They didn't do nearly enough ambient/spooky things that they could have in RE5. A kickass dark jungle area would have been the shit.

Back on topic, my main assessment of the situation is, what do we have to lose from Lords of Shadow? It's not like the 3D Castlevanias to date have been stellar games, and for a Western-developed Japanese game title, this one looks to have a ginormous budget. The more I look over the trailers, the more Castlevania stuff I see. The second trailer had a burning village ala Rondo of Blood, whip swinging/rappelling, an armor enemy, werewolves, a nice huge cathedral, many different castles... It just takes a second to sink in. (Also, if you ask me, the Ice Titan is very reminiscent of a giant armor, or even a golem, a mainstay boss at least in a few games.)

One other thing I noticed. In the second trailer, right after the anonymous villain says "I will wipe the name of Belmont from this earth... Forever!", you can distinctly hear the sound of some glass shattering. My guess? Dracula throwing his requisite wineglass full of blood!

[DingusBelmondo]

An easy way to avoid that is to just leave Dracula out of it this time. They already did it with HoD, AoS, and DoS which worked perfectly fine. The game already has the perfect date for a standalone Castlevania story; before the feud between Dracula and the Belmonts even started. They only thing they have to do is have someone else taking over Dracula's role as main villian and the game could fit right in.                          

One of the biggest gripes and moans about LoS is "NO DRACULA = NO CASTLEVANIA", there is no what that would make anybody more happy if it was in the timeline.