Topic: Harmony of Despair (The next Castlevania game?)

[Renonsgoods]

But then again, if that's the way they decide to gauge interest in 2D, they're going about it all wrong. I just hope it doesn't convince them to take the cheap and lazy way with new games.

No one said Konami has their head on straight when it comes to making proper use of the Castlevania license.  But it's obvious that Harmony of Despair was a back room project that was thrown together just to see if anyone would bother playing a 2D CV title on the home consoles besides SotN.  If people are willing to fork over the money to play what amounts to a remix/rehash of numerous previous 2D titles, then it goes without saying that they would likely play a brand new, made from scratch 2D Castlevania on their 360's and PS3's.  Of course, we diehard fans already know this...but...like I said....no one is about to give Konami too much credit for making smart use of this license.

[knightmere]

You could argue the DS games are just rehashes of ROB and SOTN sprites with different characters.

[Ridureyu]

Hey, if you found Judgment fun, then more power to you.  I mean, these are games, after all.

[JR]

But it's obvious that Harmony of Despair was a back room project that was thrown together just to see if anyone would bother playing a 2D CV title on the home consoles besides SotN.  If people are willing to fork over the money to play what amounts to a remix/rehash of numerous previous 2D titles, then it goes without saying that they would likely play a brand new, made from scratch 2D Castlevania on their 360's and PS3's.  

Yeah, but I'm thinking this could have easily blown up in their faces. If first-timers would've played this and got the impression that the rest of the series is just a sloppy mess like this one, then they could have lost future customers.

But I guess it's kind of dumb for me to say they're going about it all wrong in the first place, because this game seems to be working for them somewhat.

[uzo]

Yeah, but I'm thinking this could have easily blown up in their faces. If first-timers would've played this and got the impression that the rest of the series is just a sloppy mess like this one, then they could have lost future customers.

As much as I hate to say it, most gamers (especially the newer ones) are getting use to sloppy uninspired games that western devs are pumping out.

[whitedragon_nall]

Yeah, but I'm thinking this could have easily blown up in their faces. If first-timers would've played this and got the impression that the rest of the series is just a sloppy mess like this one, then they could have lost future customers

I wonder if newcomers even notice it though. I can't really comment since I haven't played the game, but do you think that maybe only the fans notice it?

As much as I hate to say it, most gamers (especially the newer ones) are getting use to sloppy uninspired games that western devs are pumping out.

I agree and it's pretty damn sad.

[JR]

I wonder if newcomers even notice it though. I can't really comment since I haven't played the game, but do you think that maybe only the fans notice it?

Probably not the recycled sprites, but I think they can tell how shoddy the gameplay is.

I still have fun playing it, but I still have to admit that it isn't a good game. I feel like I beat up on this game too much, but its criticisms are deserved.

[whitedragon_nall]

Probably not the recycled sprites, but I think they can tell how shoddy the gameplay is.

Makes sense. I should see if I can get a chance to play it. My brother has it, so I should be able to. I'm interested in playing it myself to see how I feel about the gameplay.

[Sonic_Reaper]

Calling the game shoddy is going a bit far.  I think it's more accurate to say that, as fans, we've become accustomed to each of the originating games from which the heroes are drawn.  As such, we expect Alucard to play like he does in SotN, Soma as he does in DoS, Shanoa as she does in OoE and so on.  But they don't.  I would say that Soma is the closest, but not quite.  

Unfortunately, it's a lot like Capcom's various mash-up fighting games.  The characters play very differently than they did in their originating games, and in order to fit them all into one conglomerate, we instead get watered down or bastardized versions.  This is especially true in HoD.  That, to be honest, is my biggest beef with the game.  The recycling doesn't bother me all that much, but rather, I miss all the nuances from the original games.  This holds especially true of Alucard, Jonathan, Charlotte and Shanoa.  For all intents and purposes, I would say Soma, Richter and Julius were much improved.  Playing with other fans from around the globe is amazing.  But I wish the characters played as they did from their original games.  I hate the reworking of Alucard's spells.  The way he moves and attacks, while very subtle, is still different enough from SotN that he feels a little slow and clunky.  There was a trick in SotN with lightning fast swords that allowed you to attack three times after a jump.  HoD introduces a dps speed cap that cripples a lot of the characters, and a lot of the fun.  Remember the holy water in SotN?  You will never see dps like that in HoD.  But that's what made SotN fun (at least for me).  Charlotte is another example.  She was a very powerful support in PoR.  And had some really interesting tactical spells such as Clear Skies and the stat buffs.  She's been relegated to attack mage with Heal.  I also liked the magic system in PoR that allowed the player to charge Charlotte's magic attack.  Of course it's been removed in HoD.  I needn't even say much about Shanoa.  What a rape scene.  The concept definitely has potential, I would say, but the way it was handled, while it can be fun, just feels like a hallow, soulless, watered down version of all the character incarnations.

[JR]

I'm not saying the game was poorly done as far as controls for individual characters, but the execution of the game overall. You can't change equipment on the fly, you don't even have the luxury of pausing on single player mode, nothing is really HD as the title's initials imply (although I'm not bothered by the graphics overall, I do feel a little cheated), and there is way too much emphasis on grinding/farming (even purple/boss chests seem 99% worthless, even on hard). I mean, I guess I could be nitpicking, but all this stuff, with the fact that there really isn't anything new to offer besides multiplayer, adds up to make it a shoddy gameplay experience to me.

[uzo]

Question: including the game, and ALL dlc, whats the original price vs the up coming discount price?

[JR]

$59 vs. $45 (keeping in mind that this also includes all picture/theme packs, which total $8)

[affinity]

You can't change equipment on the fly,
you don't even have the luxury of pausing on single player mode,
nothing is really HD as the title's initials imply (although I'm not bothered by the graphics overall, I do feel a little cheated), and there is way too much emphasis on grinding/farming (even purple/boss chests seem 99% worthless, even on hard). I mean, I guess I could be nitpicking, but all this stuff, with the fact that there really isn't anything new to offer besides multiplayer, adds up to make it a shoddy gameplay experience to me.

only changing equipment at the book locations is intended for strategic purposes.   The game is already easy as it is.  Being able to switch equipment anytime, anywhere would make things even easier, and cumbersome at the sametime.

Considering how fast a chapter can be cleared, and various safe parts in the map you can stand without fear of attack, pausing really isn't necessary.   

People can just play for fun and eventually get the better stuff.  If people play it in a grinding fashion all the time, of course they could feel burned out, but you don't need the best equips to succeed, the more rare stuff is a bonus for treasure hunters out there.

There is actually a lot of news things about Castlevania HD, including its unique structure that combines the classic objective of defeating the boss of the stage, and the more non-linear layout of the enviornment like the later metroidvanias.   

Couple that with some great extra features like being able to equip music tracks to the stage theme and boss theme.   Zoom function,  enemies that can follow/attack you between rooms, redone stats, gameplay and equip system, as well as rebalances for each character (all of which have never been playable in the same game like this before.)  nice Dual Crushes for players,  chat bubble voice system (minor but neat extra.)   

And lots more great things to say about Castlevania HD!  It's no surprise people out there have clocked over 300 hours playing Castlevania HD and still going.     And of course while multiplayer is one of its main features, that really is a great thing because where else can 6 friends/strangers team up in a Castlevania with good amount of legendary favorites to choose from?   

Of course, many would like it to continue being supported and expanded with more character and chapter DLC.   But it's already the ultimate Castlevania for many out there.   

[Reinhart77]

gosh, i'm not looking forward to the "gotta find every last item" phase of the game.  i'll probably switch to that mode of thinking once i've beaten all the stages at both levels of difficulty once with all the characters, at which point i'll switch to playing multiplayer so there's at least something new to look forward to while doing that. 

[JR]

only changing equipment at the book locations is intended for strategic purposes.   The game is already easy as it is.  Being able to switch equipment anytime, anywhere would make things even easier, and cumbersome at the sametime.

It still seems like a poor design decision to me. If it's there to add challenge, it's a very cheap and artificial way of doing so. They could've made the game more challenging without having to resort to this.

Considering how fast a chapter can be cleared, and various safe parts in the map you can stand without fear of attack, pausing really isn't necessary.

I've assumed this, while pausing to equip a potion or something, only to hear my character getting hit by an enemy that found its way to me. It's just kind of silly that if I'm playing solo, and if I need to use the bathroom/someone comes to the door/etc. I can't pause the game. To me it just feels like something that wasn't added because they were too lazy to do so.   

People can just play for fun and eventually get the better stuff.  If people play it in a grinding fashion all the time, of course they could feel burned out, but you don't need the best equips to succeed, the more rare stuff is a bonus for treasure hunters out there.

True, but you have to admit that the rare stuff is needlessly rare. They didn't have to make it that hard to find the better stuff, especially since you have to play the whole stage to get boss chests. It's crazy to me that people are talking about making 250+ runs on a stage and still haven't got the item they've been trying for. Making items that rare seems like an artificial way of boosting replay value to me. And don't get me started about subweapon leveling.

There is actually a lot of news things about Castlevania HD, including its unique structure that combines the classic objective of defeating the boss of the stage, and the more non-linear layout of the enviornment like the later metroidvanias.

But that isn't really new. That's just a combination of two things that have been done before.   

As for the other stuff they've added, yeah, it's a nice touch (except for how the characters were nerfed, like Sonic_Reaper was mentioning), but it's mostly superficial. Besides multiplayer, they haven't really brought any new fundamental aspects to gameplay. It's essentially a multiplayer Metroidvania.

I know it can be a fun game (in fact, I'm still playing it, with Richter lately), but I think it's deserving of the criticism it's received.