Topic: Gametrailers' Castlevania Retrospective

[Kale]

None of that has anything to do with sprite being skeletal though >.>

Long corridors or not, it's still an amazing looking game. I'd ahve play Muramasa if it weren't for the swords breaking so damn much.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Actually it does.  The anchor points are connected to a virtual 'skeleton' of an object, like a hero or a boss and his elbows, knees, and shoulders, and animating the object is as easy as animating those joints, and only changing the sprites of the sections when it's necessary.

It's the way the older paper marionettes used to be made.  And it's sort of the way the Armors of the latest SotN-style games do it.  Certainly Galamoth and Final Guard do this, only they're all slow and clunky and the pieces do not get redrawn or scaled, only rotated and moved (it seems).  This means CV has already done it before... just not on the scale of OdinSphere and Muramasa.

[knightmere]

The 64 games are always unfairly bashed.  LoD especially is quite good and easily surpasses both of the repetitive PS2 games.  The atmosphere and dark environments were great, and the gameplay felt like a natural evolution from the classic 2D games.  Apparently its popular to bash these games because a lot fans seem to scorn anything not made by their beloved IGA.

[uzo]

The 64 games are always unfairly bashed.  LoD especially is quite good and easily surpasses both of the repetitive PS2 games.  The atmosphere and dark environments were great, and the gameplay felt like a natural evolution from the classic 2D games.  Apparently its popular to bash these games because a lot fans seem to scorn anything not made by their beloved IGA.

I can't even count the things wrong about this post.

[corneliab]

n64 cvs raped mah moms

We fucking get it!

[whitedragon_nall]

I wish they would put the N64 'vanias on Virtual Console. I never got around to playing them, but I would very much like to. The videos I've seen of it look good, so I never really understood the hate. Anyone care to elaborate where it comes from?

[Kale]

Actually it does. 

I meant this... obviously I was not good at meaning it since you did say a whole lot more.

Those games have very low level design, though... it's usually just a long corridor in which enemies randomly show up.  Castlevania has the whole platforming aspect

[RichterB]

I wish they would put the N64 'vanias on Virtual Console. I never got around to playing them, but I would very much like to. The videos I've seen of it look good, so I never really understood the hate. Anyone care to elaborate where it comes from?

Well, I liked these games a lot (even more so in recent years), but here are the general complaints. The 3D camera can be problematic at times (though not unmanageable as pressing usually "R" usually centers it, and the problems aren't nearly as frequent as reported), there are slower puzzle and survival-horror elements alongside action and platforming (which people didn't expect in CV at the time), and the controls have a certain weight to them like the NES/SNES days that people consider "clunky" (no magical double-jumps or floating). Also, people claim that they didn't maximize the visual power of the N64 (which is a bit of an exaggerated and unfair statement). Oh, and there was backlash over the few "skeletons on motorcycles" in the game, since it took place during the Industrial Revolution (though, this isn't the only time CV has messed with technology that doesn't match the timeline). Really, the biggest backlash is from the fact that this game wasn't "SotN Part 2 in 3D." People got used to Metroidvania-style, and were surprised when the N64 games took the series in a new direction (stage-based 3D, but with a mixture of puzzles, exploration, action, survival-horror suspense, and tricky/heavy platforming). Honestly, these N64 games have A LOT of the missing ingredients lacking in the more recent 3D attempts. In the fundamentals of actually having challenging jumping hazards alongside whip-cracking action, these N64 games delivered in spades. I wish they would get an VC release, or maybe be put on a collection disc.

Here's a list, re-posted/expanded, of some of the N64's positive/innovative features:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)

PS: Gametrailers Part IV is now up: Part IV: Procession of Portability - The Castlevania Retrospective (time to watch)

[shelverton.]

I was surprised to learn that Circle of the Moon was in fact the first Castlevania to sell over 1 million copies? Which makes me wonder if that means that CotM is the best-selling game in the series still? I doubt that neither of the following games outsold it. Funny, that.

Also, Aria of Sorrow was the least successful game of the GBA trilogy, sales-wise.

[thernz]

The art design was also a massive problem for me. I'm not referring to Kojima's artwork (another "It does for me but I can live without" thing) but to the actual game graphics and environments. Those games looked like a disco show. Way too bright, way too colorful, way too "pop". I sometimes wonder if that is what IGA sees when he designs the 2D games, and we get somewhat gothic atmospheres just because of the technical limitations of the hardware.

woah slow down babe
loi and cod were both much more duller and muted in colors compared to any 2D Castlevania, even scviv. sciv is more muddy in color than muted. cod is especially exceedingly duller in colors than los. the only colorful thing in cod were those god awful pop ups and splash effects. there's a far stronger value in saturation in a lot of los's levels, like the early ones and the necromancer's abyss. the teals and oranges in the castle chapters are fairly strong too. but that's okay, color is okay so it's good for los. the intricate richness of los's environments are brought out by them. makes it bold, etc. instead of cod-gray. gothic is more about intricate details than color anyway.

also cotm just had a darker color palette, but its environments weren't necessarily more gothic than any of its predecessors. you know, with most of its backgrounds being variations of just bricks.
why did cotm sell so much
it had really boring empty and hallway level design and clunkiness that wasn't appropriately fitted for the game. specifically, double tap to run. then again, it had DRAGON ZOMBIES.

[Kale]

I'm surprised by the Aria's sales. because I really liked that game.

CotM's sales made me happy though, as I'm a fan.

[RichterB]

I was surprised to learn that Circle of the Moon was in fact the first Castlevania to sell over 1 million copies?

According to VGCharts, Castlevania 64 is the best-selling game!  http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=castlevania&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total
(I think CotM's success was tied to the GBA launch and it being the first true successor to the SotN style). I liked CotM a lot at the time, and still think its blending of hard, old-school action with Metroidvania style was a better blending than most (or all) Metroidvanias. I liked its art direction, too.

[crisis]

fun fact: Circle of the Moon features the infamous "Skeleton Medalist"

[thernz]

cotm goes for the gold

[whitedragon_nall]

The pros and cons of N64 Castlevanias

Wow. A lot more info there than I expeced. Thanks though! They don't sound too bad at all. Hopefully, I'll get to play them someday....



What if we added all of the various Cv1 remakes? Would that make Cv1 the best selling game? Or the several available versions of SotN?