Topic: Why the Morris Family? A Look at the Original Dracula Novel

[Ridureyu]

Although really, it's not like the old timeline even matters that much anymore now that they've trashed it and rebooted it completely with Lords of Shadow.

[JR]

But LoS exists outside of the timeline and doesn't replace it entirely, right?

[Nagumo]

I'm not really sure why that would be unlogical . It was also just an alternate way to make my point clear because all my other arguments were ignored.

Once again, Castlevania's internal consistency is perfectly fine. What are you talking about?

[JR]

I'm just trying to understand what your logic is on the series taking liberties with things and events outside of the timeline, because it looked like you flip-flopped your argument from one post to the next.

[DragonSlayr81]

Well, if we are nitpicking, might as well toss in Carmilla and Laura's ultra-novel-contradicting appearances in both the classic and LoS timelines. Oh me-oh-my, how DARE they!!!

CV's version of history has NEVER bothered me. It's a fictional world, so I'm open to any tweaking, even if they say THAT world's version of Vlad Tepes was actually a vampire who lived during the Crusades, as well as the events of WWI being ignited by Elizabeth Bartley. If people can swallow this type of thing with other stories(I mean, let's face it, almost every fantasy story/movie that takes place in OUR world does it, be it from Watchmen, Marvel Comics/DC Comics universes, and hell, even Stoker's novel itself), sure as hell CV has the right to do so too. Are people going to complain about Alan Moore's choice to include Mina in his League comics? I think people let too many little things annoy them, especially in fictional fantasy worlds. What gets me the most is, people want more realistic takes on fantasy, which always makes me laugh. A good example is how people are saying the inclusion of Ant-Man and Wasp would be bad for the Avengers movie because they are too unrealistic. I mean, in a world where a man can transform from normal size to a giant(Hulk), a god-like man could wield god-like powers(Thor) and humans are capable of technology that makes OUR own reality look like crap(Iron Man), saying Ant-man and Wasp are unrealistic in a world where all those obvious fantasy aspects exist is just being finicky.

[JR]

I don't know about more realism, but better consistency wouldn't be something I'd oppose.

I have no problem with CV intertwining with history and other works of fiction, but when those things have to be changed in the CV universe, I'd like to see a good reason, I guess. I mean, if the Crusades happened 30 or so years afterward, and they had to move it up to make it fit, so be it. But being off by a year just makes it seem kind of amateurish...like an outright mistake as opposed to intentionally taking liberties with history. Doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the games, but it still could've been done more competently.

[Nagumo]

I'm just trying to understand what your logic is on the series taking liberties with things and events outside of the timeline, because it looked like you flip-flopped your argument from one post to the next.

I'm changing my arguments because the only replies I get are "you can't prove me wrong" or just the same argument that I already proved to be invalid.

Anyway, this is most likely the most easy way I can explain: History is not part of the Castlevania canon and the games don't have to be 100% consistent with it. If you are going to put a work of fiction in another fictional world the two should match if you are intending them to put them in the same canon. Otherwise what would be the point? History and fiction are absolutely not comparable in this case. Just because there are dating disperancies in both instances doesn't mean you can link the two.

Saying that you can put the book into the timeine because the Castlevania is not consistent with itself is not an excuse but that isn't true. Which by the way, is a point where actual arguments in favor of it have yet to be provided in this discussion.

Bram Stoker's Dracula can't be canon because it condradicts with the timeline.                 

[JR]

Anyway, this is most likely the most easy way I can explain: History is not part of the Castlevania canon and the games don't have to be 100% consistent with it. If you are going to put a work of fiction in another fictional world the two should match if you are intending them to put them in the same canon. Otherwise what would be the point? History and fiction are absolutely not comparable in this case.

Says who? That sounds like a pretty arbitrary statement to make. It sounds more like a matter of personal preference than anything. If you can argue that it's pointless to change fictional events to fit with another work of fiction, the same argument can be made for history.




Wow, this thread has taken a weird turn that I'd never expect. o_O

[Nagumo]

By including Bram Stoker's Dracula into the timeline everyting mentioned in the the book should be regarded as true. That's the point of having canon. The events and information provided are what really happend in that fictional universe. When you mention the Crusades it doesn't mean all real life history that deals with that event is incorporated into the Castlevania universe.

The difference is that the Crusades mentioned are just based on the real-life counterpart while everything mentioned in the Stoker novel should be taken as it is written. You can only have that kind off leaway when the event in the Castlevania timeline is based on that book which is obviously the case here. Just like the Crusades in Lament of Innocence are based on the real thing. That's why a dating disperancy already makes it impossible to fit the novel in.

I could also argue Bram Stoker's Dracula can fit because in the Castlevania universe Elizabeth Bartley caused World War I which doesn't line up with real life history.

                 

[JR]

Alright, I know what role canon serves, and I'm aware that you can base something off of a historical event without using that event in its entirety. I hope you're not being condescending.

I wasn't even referring specifically to the book anymore. I assumed we were talking about fictional works and history in general, only using CV as an example. My bad, I see what you're saying now.

[Ahasverus]

But considering the book being canon in the saga is illogical, Dracula is not the way portrayed in it, the Castle isn't even important in it, there are no Belmont reference, no reasons for him to be the prince of Darkness, he's just a vampire.
The noves itself shouldn't be considered canon but the events are, the thing is, we NEED to know the CV-version of that story, tht¡s the only problem there, until then, we can only especulate of which parts of the novel are or not in the canon 

[Chernabogue]

A CV game with Quincy Morris is then needed!

[whitedragon_nall]

But considering the book being canon in the saga is illogical, Dracula is not the way portrayed in it, the Castle isn't even important in it, there are no Belmont reference, no reasons for him to be the prince of Darkness, he's just a vampire.

 
Since the novel takes place during the Belmont's absence, I feel that Drac was being less aggressive since he knew his death wasn't waiting for him shortly after his resurrection. At least, that's the only sense I ever made out of it.  I'm not very good at this....

The noves itself shouldn't be considered canon but the events are, the thing is, we NEED to know the CV-version of that story, tht¡s the only problem there, until then, we can only especulate of which parts of the novel are or not in the canon 

A CV game with Quincy Morris is then needed!

This is really the only solution. 

[Ridureyu]

So basically, a dating sim game with Lucy Westrena, followed by a lot of cinematics of Jonathan Harker being awesome, and ending with a single action sequence where you get to stab Dracula once.

Awesome game!

[whitedragon_nall]

I remember reading somewhere that Japan loves dating sims. It'd be a great way to get sales.


Or maybe not...... 

Personally, I loved the opening chapters of the book with Jonathan in the Castle. It'd be such a great atmosphere for a game. That part of the novel would translate nicely into a creepy exploration segment. Not too sure on how the rest of the game would be handled though. Konami would have to take some liberties with the original story.