Topic: Castlevania: LoS - Mirror of Fate (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[uzo]

Laura explictly said that humans can't enter the shadow dimension. That's  why Gabriel was turned in the first place.

Only to the extent that they cannot survive there. The only way she believed he would survive is if he was a vampire. We know humans can enter because there are dead Brotherhood knights there.

[Flame]

Gabe trashed his cross in a moment of pretty good foresight- I mean, it's a super powerful Holy weapon- augmented by a ton of enhancements, and has the ability to kill vampires. Better to leave it where it cannot be found than to possibly have it used against him. He mentions that himself.

Of course- his foresight forgot to remember he left the actual "Vampire Killer" stake back in Carmilla's Castle. And in the 26 years between LoS and Trevor's story, he never once remembered that bit that was RIGHT in the room Trevor fights him in.

Oops.

I saw the playthrough of the game. My thoughts:

Story was not underwhelming, it was alright. My gripe is the "told backwards" gimmick. It's painful because It's not hard to see what happens. It's all painfully obvious. They should have just told it in order. It's not like Trevor's ending reveals anything particularly Earth shattering. You already know he becomes Alucard through Alucard's story- The fact is not that well hidden. I suppose that is supposed to be the big reveal, but by the end of Alucard's Story it becomes obvious. They should have just told it in order- Trevor -> Simon-> Alucard

i dunno. I feel the story could have been much more enjoyable had it had a better more cohesive structure. And it did feel like somewhat of a cop-out to give Trevor the same moveset as Alucard. I would have expected Trevor and Alucard to have a few different abilities. I get that he lost all his shit upon death, (somehow he already knew how to jump in mid air when he was human, and forgot how to as an undead) but that could have been handled better.

The Trevor/Alucard thing was actually handled pretty well storywise. Im surprised I have no real beef with it. It just works, somehow. He killed Trevor without knowing he was his son, tries to revive him with his blood and fails, and entombs him. Having not known his son's name, he just gives his tomb the alias "Alucard", since His son was the antithesis to himself. A brotherhood knight who tried to defy his fate whereas Gabe accepted it, and whom fought against his Father instead of embracing him. Stuff like that. It actually makes sense, and again, I have somehow, no real beef with the fact that Alucard is the same entity as Trevor. Kudos, they really made it work somehow.

I love the details though, that show just how much Gabe really does still have a heart. He makes a shrine to Trevor, with his outfit and Combat Cross within it, with a nice stained glass window for the light to shine in, And when it comes to Trevor's body, he has ornate funeral garments made for him, and entombs him within the old Castle keep, rather than shoving him into the catacombs.

The Grant Scroll... I was under the impression that the body was not Grant himself, but just a brotherhood knight and Grant took the scroll and wrote his own shit on it, due to the way it words "if anyone should find this fallen Brotherhood scroll" and then says that Dracula will come to loath the name Danasty. *shrug*

Also, the elevators.



HAH! They are right from SoTN.

On the game itself: it feels like they really limited themselves by going 2D. It feels like a game that would have been better as a 3D game, or a console game. maybe it's just me, I haven't played it, perhaps the experience is better with the 3D.

EDIT: The necromancer trying to get Trevor's cross for Zobek feels rather shoehorned in... It comes up once, then is never referred to again in any way. I suppose it's a plot thing for LoS2, but it just felt weird.

Anyone else feel like the Death figures in the Toymaker's clock were a shoutout to the traditional Death in the Clocktower scenario?

[darkwzrd4]

Gabe trashed his cross in a moment of pretty good foresight- I mean, it's a super powerful Holy weapon- augmented by a ton of enhancements, and has the ability to kill vampires. Better to leave it where it cannot be found than to possibly have it used against him. He mentions that himself.

Of course- his foresight forgot to remember he left the actual "Vampire Killer" stake back in Carmilla's Castle. And in the 26 years between LoS and Trevor's story, he never once remembered that bit that was RIGHT in the room Trevor fights him in.

Oops.

I saw the playthrough of the game. My thoughts:

Story was not underwhelming, it was alright. My gripe is the "told backwards" gimmick. It's painful because It's not hard to see what happens. It's all painfully obvious. They should have just told it in order. It's not like Trevor's ending reveals anything particularly Earth shattering. You already know he becomes Alucard through Alucard's story- The fact is not that well hidden. I suppose that is supposed to be the big reveal, but by the end of Alucard's Story it becomes obvious. They should have just told it in order- Trevor -> Simon-> Alucard

i dunno. I feel the story could have been much more enjoyable had it had a better more cohesive structure. And it did feel like somewhat of a cop-out to give Trevor the same moveset as Alucard. I would have expected Trevor and Alucard to have a few different abilities. I get that he lost all his shit upon death, (somehow he already knew how to jump in mid air when he was human, and forgot how to as an undead) but that could have been handled better.

The Trevor/Alucard thing was actually handled pretty well storywise. Im surprised I have no real beef with it. It just works, somehow. He killed Trevor without knowing he was his son, tries to revive him with his blood and fails, and entombs him. Having not known his son's name, he just gives his tomb the alias "Alucard", since His son was the antithesis to himself. A brotherhood knight who tried to defy his fate whereas Gabe accepted it, and whom fought against his Father instead of embracing him. Stuff like that. It actually makes sense, and again, I have somehow, no real beef with the fact that Alucard is the same entity as Trevor. Kudos, they really made it work somehow.

I love the details though, that show just how much Gabe really does still have a heart. He makes a shrine to Trevor, with his outfit and Combat Cross within it, with a nice stained glass window for the light to shine in, And when it comes to Trevor's body, he has ornate funeral garments made for him, and entombs him within the old Castle keep, rather than shoving him into the catacombs.

The Grant Scroll... I was under the impression that the body was not Grant himself, but just a brotherhood knight and Grant took the scroll and wrote his own shit on it, due to the way it words "if anyone should find this fallen Brotherhood scroll" and then says that Dracula will come to loath the name Danasty. *shrug*

Also, the elevators.



HAH! They are right from SoTN.

On the game itself: it feels like they really limited themselves by going 2D. It feels like a game that would have been better as a 3D game, or a console game. maybe it's just me, I haven't played it, perhaps the experience is better with the 3D.

EDIT: The necromancer trying to get Trevor's cross for Zobek feels rather shoehorned in... It comes up once, then is never referred to again in any way. I suppose it's a plot thing for LoS2, but it just felt weird.

Anyone else feel like the Death figures in the Toymaker's clock were a shoutout to the traditional Death in the Clocktower scenario?

I agree the story should have been told in order. It would give the reveal that Alucard and Trevor are the same person a little more power. Think about it: we see Gabriel pretty much kill Trevor and then trying to save him. Then, know nothing solid until we play as him. Sure, we would see him while playing as Simon, but wouldn't have a definitive answer until act 3.

On another note, Trevor seemed to play a lot like Gabriel did in LoS1. He had both light and shadow magic, magic boots that make him run fast, a combat cross, and a double jump. Not to mention, he had almost the same abilities when he became Alucard. Mist form was like using light magic but with a dodge/heal instead of healing when landing a hit. Wolf form acted a lot like shadow magic in that it made you do more damage. And, let's not forget his weapon was almost like a dark counterpart to the combat cross. The only differences are the sub weapons: an hour glass that slowed down time and a bat projectile.

Another thing is that the fight between Gabriel and Trevor at the end of act 1 was reminiscent of the  battles with the silver warrior (Pan) and Satan from LoS1.

[Flame]

Yeah. Also- While the story I felt was fine, I still feel like LoS1 just plain trumps it in every way. it's presented much better, and structured like a normal story. Sir Patrick Stewart's narration doesn't hurt, either, lol.

MoF really does feel like plot filler till LoS2. Not bad filler, just... you can tell it IS filler.

Im also kind of bothered by the mouth thing. Was it really that hard to animate the mouths moving? Even if they just opened and closed? Also, the fact that sometimes they didn't EVEN open, and just stayed closed.

[Kingshango]

They tried to go with using in game cutscenes but they felt that it didn't come out right, so they decided to go with the cel shaded stop motion comic style. The mouth animation was likey chosen due to that and budget constraints since lipsynching animation can be difficult to do ( especially since im %100 sure that their best animation team is working on LOS2).

[Dremn]

I actually thought it looked neat that their wasn't any lip syncing, made it seem very comic booky.

[Lelygax]

"comic" booky xD

They atleast should have opened the mouth when they talk in my opinion.

[Zetheraxza]

This guy is Rinaldo Gandalfi's little brother... Rinaldo is more than a reference,he has a huge part to play on all this. And Toy Maker was Rinaldo's greatest pupil. 

[Flame]

What makes you think that guy is related to Rinaldo at all? No evidence to suggest it.

[crisis]

The only info we have of Rinaldo is that he was thought to be dead at one point but one of the Brotherhood Knights found him living in isolation in the bog somewhere (scroll from LoS)

He also had a pupil, the Toy Maker, which was responsible for creating an alternate Combat Cross called Dark Pain.

It's a shame that we have yet to actually interact with him in any fashion.

[uzo]

They really built up Rinaldo in LoS, even hinting that he wa sin the area you were in, and I figured either A) secret hidden weak upgrade, or B) story sequence.

Neither happened, and thus it got thrown on the pile of unused plot elements and forgotten things that is the LoS plot.

[Flame]

Forgotten? Hardly. He's being built up to be a very important element in the series, considering He has made tons of weapons and shit, and the Toymaker was his pupil.

I wouldn't be surprised if his story comes to a head in LoS2, where the Toymaker is supposed to have a bigger presence, or at least be explained in more detail. They wouldn't make him Rinaldo's pupil if they weren't going to go anywhere with it.

I wonder if Rinaldo left the order because he didn't like it anymore? We've seen that the Order is just full of bad ideas and terrible decisions, deciding to ruin one man's life and the life of his offspring (and possibly dooming the world to his terrible wrath) for the sake of an old prophecy without telling him anything, therefore just condemning him to his fall after he conveniently defeats Satan for them, And then allow his son to go to his death.

I would say that the order- if they are not corrupt themselves- are full of fools. It's possible that Rinaldo saw this and left the order, scattering his Combat Cross upgrades around the land and settling down in the disguise of an old beggar.

Given that LoS2 spans different time periods, I wouldn't be surprised if He finally shows up or is explained in full.

[crisis]

I wonder if Rinaldo left the order because he didn't like it anymore? We've seen that the Order is just full of bad ideas and terrible decisions, deciding to ruin one man's life and the life of his offspring (and possibly dooming the world to his terrible wrath) for the sake of an old prophecy without telling him anything, therefore just condemning him to his fall after he conveniently defeats Satan for them, And then allow his son to go to his death.

"Fabian" asks Dave Cox on Twitter, "Did they basically use him and figured it would be worth the sacrifice of him becoming a monster himself?" to which Dave replies, "The choice was end of the world and all humanity enslaved by Satan or the world saved and a powerful vampire to deal with!" Which is the lesser of two evils?

Cox was also asked about that Brotherhood elder, if he was related to Rinaldo and Dave jokes saying it's his little brother, before saying he's just another random member.

[Flame]

Didn't someone ask also if they were really as good as they claim to be, to which he answered 'well that's the question, isn't it?" I recall seeing that somewhere in one of the other threads.

[Zetheraxza]

What makes you think that guy is related to Rinaldo at all? No evidence to suggest it.

Dava Cox's Twitter.