Topic: Is gender too big in games?

[Crying Freeman]

Before I start I want to be clear I'm not trying to start a flame war or offend anyone. I also believe in equality of the sexes and genders. I judge on the content of character. Now, onto the discussion:

I was strolling through Steam and saw a game I wanted, a retro-platformer with some horizontal shooting sections called Taimumari. The graphics and gameplay seemed solid, so a good purchase for $5. I saw the tags and noticed female protagonist as one of them. Now especially nowadays, even though it's dying down, games are awarded by players for having a female protagonist, which makes sense obviously because female players want a character to relate to, and male players might want some variety in their stories.

Using that as a tag, though? I started to wonder if that's really important at all to a game in that sense. Tags are used to help indicate a genre of something, the design of something, the art style of something, but the sex of a protagonist? If a tag was "male protagonist" I'm sure some people would slam it as being sexist an others would look at it as "So?". Also, say Taimumari stared a male character, it wouldn't be less of a game, and it'd still be a retro style platformer with shooting sections. Would female players still be interested in Tomumari? Would male players? Well, while I was looking at games, I did click on anime style games with female protagonists on the art, so I guess it will attract my attention, as well as many others.  I thought about it and came to a conclusion that it depends on the game.

For example: In a game like Perfect Dark, it wouldn't matter what gender the hero was, not because we're in first person, but because the game isn't trying to be a super artistic or story driven game. I  know I never shut up about Valis, but it is a series that does rely more on it's art and story rather than it's gameplay. If you're familiar with the story of the computer versions of the first and second game or the genesis version of the first game, then you'll agree that a female protagonist fits that story so much better. Yuko comes off as an introvert, a very emotional person, who keeps even those who aren't too close to her very close, and isn't used to the violence she deals with in her battles until the third game roles around, and many speculate she's a lesbian.

I'm also not saying males can't be more emotional or written as introverts or gays, because people of all genders with those qualities obviously exist. It's hard to imagine a gender swap in a plot like Valis's though. Like I mentioned, though, Perfect Dark isn't trying to tell a meaningful story, so it doesn't really matter what gender the hero is. Same goes for Half Life. HL does tell it's story extremely well, but it doesn't need a male protagonist. Swap Gordon out for a woman and nothings really changed, because hes a silent protagonist and HL's plot doesn't rely on his personality or gender. Goldeneye could swap Bond for a female, change the film connections, no real change.

All in all, I think gender is a great way of telling a story in games when it's done right; aka good writing and understanding the characters you're making. If the character is written with their gender in mind, even if you put a new twist on the tired gender stereotypes, it can work beautifully. I also believe in freedom of speech and expression, so even if a dev like Rare wants Joanna Dark, even if it doesn't add anything to the story, I support their decision. At the same time, I don't think a game should be commended for just having a female character like it's a new thing, because it's been around for ages. I also don't think that a game should be looked at as a holy grail if it has a character that deviates from the usual white hetero-male protagonist unless it's done extremely well with good writing and direction, because a game with good writing and direction is a game with good writing and direction. Is gender too big in games? I think some people go to extremes on the subject rather than enjoying games, but at the end of the day games are art, and popular trends are popular trends. Instead of focusing solely on pleasing everyone 100% and furthering the divide of equality, we should just focus on the art that we enjoy and the art that is genuinly good.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

Tags are nothing more than a helpful description of what's in the game to make it easier to search for. Don't read too much into it.

I generally prefer female protaganists myself, and when I'm given the reins of character creation, I always default to one. Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Saints Row, Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic... I play female-first in all of them.

I only play male characters if I'm either railroaded into it or exceedingly bored, especially because the "light skinned brown haired male" is the star of EVERYTHING.

[zangetsu468]

I don't overthink it because Gaming comes first and foremost, genre comes second.

I do have to admit when there's a female protagonist I'm more intrigued and I seem to enjoy those games a lot.
I'm liking that Bloodstained has a female protagonist.
I've always been fascinated by Metroid.
Out of nowehere I started playing Valis III and loving it.
I liked Momohime's game better than Kisuke's in Muramasa.
I like FFXIII a lot as a series (and have enjoyed finishing the first game and playing to about halfway through the second). 
I like Miyazaki films, which 9/10 times have a female protagonist.
Maria was my favourite playable character in SSOTN.
Maybe it's just coincidental.

[X]

Games are a form of art, no question about it. And though I've played many a game with male-lead roles I'm always on the look-out for games with female protagonists. Just as The Bloody Rayne had stated with his comment,..

I generally prefer female protaganists myself, and when I'm given the reins of character creation, I always default to one. Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Saints Row, Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic... I play female-first in all of them.

I'm very similar in this way. I don't know the reason why I prefer to play a female over a male. Maybe it's because I'm already a guy in real life and I want something different--to try on a different pair of shoes so to speak. And 99% of the time when playing tabletop RPG's like D&D, I'll write up a female character sheet. I used to play only male characters back in the day. But when I made my first female character sheet I never looked back.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I don't care much about the gender of the character I'm playing as, but if the game hands me the option of choosing, I always choose the male character. I do that in Pokemon too.
Following X's logic, maybe because I'm already female and I wanted to be male in games.

[zangetsu468]

Following X's logic, maybe because I'm already female and I wanted to be male in games.

I think it comes down to something that straight forward for me too.

[JR]

Eh, I don't really put too much thought into the gender of protagonists in games. As long as the character is interesting and has a good story, I could go either way. I'll be honest: I kind of roll my eyes when I see that a female character has been added simply for sex appeal and nothing else, but I'm not like "OMG THIS MUST BE STOPPED" when I see it, either. Like Dragon's Crown. The Sorceress (and the Amazon to a lesser extent) looked silly and kind of pandering IMO, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the game immensely. I picked the Elf, anyway...she looked the most interesting out of the whole group of characters. And I'm not going to chastise or look down on anyone for liking the character design of the Sorceress, either. (Also, that's not to say that I think she was a character that was only in the game for sex appeal or anything like that...it was just the first example that sprang to mind.)

...though I do think it's cool seeing a female character who's an absolute beast in terms of raw strength. Not sure why, but that's kind of awesome.

[Crying Freeman]

Tags are nothing more than a helpful description of what's in the game to make it easier to search for. Don't read too much into it.

I think that's my problem  I always look too deep into things I guess. The whole gender war in gaming last year kinda fueled the fire a bit for me too.

[Donvermicelli]

I think it all comes down to expectations. People by nature like to categorize things so they become easier to understand for them. First impressions are important for this exact reason.

[Donvermicelli]

male protagonist has been the default for so long that game devs have run it into the ground. marketers have targeted a very small demographic for a long time. women have made up a much bigger share of game players but have traditionally gotten shafted by marketing and representation. yeah there have been a few female protagonists but it's misleading to say it's anywhere close to equal or anywhere close to 50/50.

this is not going away and you THINK it is "too big," then that is evidence that you are unaware of your privilege. more equal representation is the future and there is no looking back. be upset with it or accept it, either way, it will happen regardless of your preferences. the days of marketers and game devs only targeting half their audience are over.

But this is another debate altogether. Can a game with a male protagonist not be marketed to women or both sexes for that matter? Can't a story in a game just decide whatever it wants to do without having to think that they NEED to put in a female protagonist just to meet the "equality quota"? In order to create equality in the workplace for example, certain countries put quotas for companies to have a certain percentage of other-ethnicity workers in order to be considered equal opportunity employers. Is it really equal opportunity when you have to choose one person over the other when they have a different ethnicity just to meet a quota? Don't get me wrong, I am all for equal rights of race, ethnicity and gender but sometimes these things end up making the problem worse.

To go back to the original problem I think the ratio of female/male protagonists is simply due to the fact that for a very long time the vast majority of the developers have been male and because of that they find it easier to relate to a male protagonist. Fortunately for the female population of gamers that yearn for more games with a female protagonist, there seems to be an increase in the amount of female developers making the likelihood of a game with a female protagonist greater.

[Gunlord]

A lot of women also like male protagonists too, for reasons not necessarily different than why men like female protagonists. I know quite a few girls who like the dreamy men Ayami Kojima draws ;o

[Shiroi Koumori]

A lot of women also like male protagonists too, for reasons not necessarily different than why men like female protagonists. I know quite a few girls who like the dreamy men Ayami Kojima draws ;o

Yup yup. 
IGA himself said that Ayami's illustrations drew a lot of females to Castlevania, at least from his experience reading fan letters in Japan.

[Crying Freeman]

male protagonist has been the default for so long that game devs have run it into the ground. marketers have targeted a very small demographic for a long time. women have made up a much bigger share of game players but have traditionally gotten shafted by marketing and representation. yeah there have been a few female protagonists but it's misleading to say it's anywhere close to equal or anywhere close to 50/50.

this is not going away and you THINK it is "too big," then that is evidence that you are unaware of your privilege. more equal representation is the future and there is no looking back. be upset with it or accept it, either way, it will happen regardless of your preferences. the days of marketers and game devs only targeting half their audience are over.

What privilage? Guess I should shit up and not express my opinion. I'll admit I glanced over how gender is part of vision and art. I only made it sound like it matters if it's a story driven game, and it isn't exclusive to those. But let me say something else: The reason games are aimed at males is because most gamers of console and PC games are seen as males, so it makes sense to market or create games/art for that demographic.

That is changing, and I'm not arguing that nor am I loathing it, as I think its great that more people are getting into it. I'll also say: Look at puzzle games vs. FPS games. Puzzle games are mostly played by females, so they have graphical styles and other bits aimed at the female demographic. FPS games are mostly played by males so they have the style of manly gun-toting adventures. Not saying members of either gender can't play these genres, just saying a truth.

My main thing behind this was to ask if gender in general is as important in games as a lot of people make it out to be after seeing  "female protagonist" as a possible selling point, and I really worded that poorly TBH. I take the current SJW mentality seriously nowadays because they constantly want to silence opinions other than theirs, and they get offended by things that aren't important like comedy. I think I was hit by it and wanted to discuss it, but I can see it got the better of me, even though I can see this as a relevant topic nowadays.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, it was just something that hit me. And I love female protagonists, which I mentioned above. In fact I'm currently making a game with GameMaker, and the protagonist is a female, one who starts off scared and sad but as the story goes on she becomes stronger. Hell, she isn't even drawn for fan service.

Let me just say: Just because someone brings up a topic that might seem sexist or racist on the outside may not have the intentions of being sexist or racist. I'm neither of those, and I support equality.

[Crying Freeman]

Yup yup. 
IGA himself said that Ayami's illustrations drew a lot of females to Castlevania, at least from his experience reading fan letters in Japan.

I remember a recent "let's play with devs" style video with a woman playing SOTN with Iga, and she mentioned how the "softer" approach to the heroes as opposed to "beefcakes" was something that got her into playing it.

[X]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, it was just something that hit me.

Trust me dude, nothing I read so-far from your posts has anything you should be worried about. But to directly answer your question: Is gender too big in games? In my humble opinion? No. In reality it's not a big deal unless we make it as such. We are both saviors and condemners of our own creations and each other.

Let me just say: Just because someone brings up a topic that might seem sexist or racist on the outside may not have the intentions of being sexist or racist. I'm neither of those, and I support equality.

Equality all the way!