How much more Castlevania do you want it considering they are rebooting it and trying to attract a bigger crowd?
I started out hating the game but it grew on me very quickly.
I just thought of something. Is this game castlevania enough to even be listed among the other games on this site? I wonder about that.
Again it's a clear-cut case of people bitching about nothing. Seriously, all the complaints are over little shit. RELAX! This is NOT a Metroidvania, was never intended to be and thankfully is NOT. This is the 21st centruy and time to make a real new-gen game. End of story & bottom line.
Again it's a clear-cut case of people bitching about nothing. Seriously, all the complaints are over little shit. RELAX! This is NOT a Metroidvania, was never intended to be and thankfully is NOT. This is the 21st centruy and time to make a real new-gen game. End of story & bottom line.
The timeline was getting way too ridiculous and the story was getting repetitive.
the story was kinda repetitive from the start. its kinda the point.
los's own story shares a lot of tropes with the other more recent castlevanias too.
I'm curious, what was so ridiculous about the timeline?
Now we have LoS which is even further in the past than that (and spare me the whole "LoS is not connected to LoI" crap because it obviously is.) They have also used time travel in the series so basically they can make a game take place anytime, anywhere.
Woah, what makes you still think that? Vincent Dorin showing up didn't seem weird to you? :P
I really don't think we can connect the two timelines at all, yes.
It's not just a matter of factual inconsistencies - the style is just too different. You can't really put Leon Belmont and Gabriel Belmont (or Pan and Soma Cruz, or Mathias and Zobek) in the same room and assume they belong to the same world.
It's better if the two timelines are kept separated; the games are radically different in terms of mood and atmosphere.
Coxee said they copy/pasted character names because that would count as fanservice and also condradict the timeline on purpose. So basically they're just being douches.
Yes I understand all that...but I've said since day 1 if you REALLY want to keep the two timelines 100% separate, then don't reuse names and identities. In LoS we have many references to Rinaldo, by name, who makes weapons. You telling me it's not supposed to be the same Rinaldo from LoI? Bull. There's a pretty big connection to LoI right there! Then the rumor of Gabe being part of the Cronqvist family is another tie-in. Then there's Cornell, Carmilla, Laura, Olrox, etc. People just saying that it's pure coincidence they have the same names but aren't really the same characters is a copout. I don't care how different they look/act or the overall atmosphere of the game. It's hard not to draw parallels when you're using the same characterizations.wow your trying sssooooooooooo hard to establish this as part of the main canon when Cox HIMSELF said that this takes place in a SEPERATE UNIVERSE.
wow your trying sssooooooooooo hard to establish this as part of the main canon when Cox HIMSELF said that this takes place in a SEPERATE UNIVERSE.
sure you can "try" to connect it but bottom line its in a seperate universe and thus you really shouldn't read to much into this and call BS on stuff
Yes I know. Again, I'm not ignoring the fact that the official word is that it's a separate universe. I get that. I just don't fully agree with it. I always analyze every aspect of CV, and in this particular case it's hard for me personally not to draw parallels between the two timelines. I think it would've been much easier and no questions asked if they just used all new names/characters instead of reusing several.
^
I agree Thunderbird, that part was incredible. I was walking instead of running, tho :P
(click to show/hide)
It's Rinaldo, it says so in the inventory. I don't think the classic timeline is done, as there's room for both 2D & 3D Castlevania. MercurySteam can handle the 3D games while IgaSteam handles the portable titles. Everyone's happy.
So we would have two kind of Castlevanias? Not only 2D and 3D, but regarding to timeline/story? o_o (LOL IgaSteam XD)
That reminds me. I have a question about Rinaldo.(click to show/hide)
did anyone get stuck in the clockwork tower tryin to use that crappy 1st lever, the camera makes it well difficult to turn it properly, must of spent about 30 mins tryin to turn that thing, gave up in the end...is there a trick to it?
other then that its really tough and enjoyable, apart from the fact that most of the combos are made redundant simply by there being so many and some unworkable in most combat situations as your generally overwraught with enemies...
Heck, Cornell posed more of a challenge than the final boss, seeing as how you have a constant replenish of light & dark magic at your disposal and you *should* have both Ultimate Light and Ultimate dark abilities by then, making the fight even easier...
Anyways, I was thinking how nice it would of been to be given a weapon upgrade or new ability purchased with XP points that allowed Gabe to launch/juggle the larger enemies in the game, adding a little bit of depth to the fights.
I think MercurySteam must really improve their storytelling abilites. It's kinda comic how Zobek says Gabriel is becoming cold hearted and next xinematic he's crying and telling "I didn't want to do this!" . The same with the music, they have an idea, but the fact that 60% of people feel it's akward makes me doubt of how it was implemented into gameplay sensibilities (I will repeat it until I die, It's my favourite musical score ever but I see most of people doesn't share that opinion so...). They are (thankfully) very minor complaints very improvable for the sequel :)
How'd you know they dind't have a big budget? I think they did, or at least a fairly good one. Definitely by far bigger than the recent cvs... or maybe all the other CVs.
Risk or not, they stilll had Kojima to look over it, so I doubt they'd just say here's 5 dollars, go buy yourself a steak.
How'd you know they dind't have a big budget? I think they did, or at least a fairly good one. Definitely by far bigger than the recent cvs... or maybe all the other CVs.1st of all, MercurySteam is composed of 50 people. That's nowhere near the 500 GTA team had.
Risk or not, they stilll had Kojima to look over it, so I doubt they'd just say here's 5 dollars, go buy yourself a steak.
I mean, LoS is still leap and bounds above the series' standard (it's nowhere near as offsensive as the storytelling of Aria or Dawn or worse of all Symphony)
1st of all, MercurySteam is composed of 50 people. That's nowhere near the 500 GTA team had.
And they had a limited budget, even Cox said it, they did their best with what they were given, and we were VERY lucky we had Kojima's money, Konami's inicial budget was laughable as always, Kojima productions gave the studio more foundings for the project. If this game is succesful, we'll see a "bigger, better and more badass" version of this game.
Not really. Surely bigger in absolute terms, but you need to realize developing for the DS/portable consoles probably costs 1/10th of how much a next gen HD game does and they certainly didn't have 10 times the budget.
MS is a VERY small team. To make a comparison, I don't imagine them having more than 1/6th of the budget SSM had for GoWIII.
UPDATED:
Spent some more time with it; beat the Enchanted Forest and Spider Cave and am into the Agharta place now... I'm sorry, at this point in Chapter 2, there is only a smidgen of Castlevania "feel." It's actually starting to bug me how bland the vision is. Sure, you've got all these "epic" settings like forests and caves and ruins...but they don't have much personality. It feels like I'm just on an archeological adventure like Indiana Jones or Laura Croft.
How'd you know they dind't have a big budget? I think they did, or at least a fairly good one. Definitely by far bigger than the recent cvs... or maybe all the other CVs.
Risk or not, they stilll had Kojima to look over it, so I doubt they'd just say here's 5 dollars, go buy yourself a steak.
I don't think it's technically as proficient they just made artistically better assets. i dont actually like the way the lighting is rendered among other things in the engine but that's nagging.WHAT?!
But when you compare GoW3 (which this game IS being compared to) to LoS, you can't help but marvel how 50 guys came up with a completely new graphics engine that arguably looks better than an engine being used by 500 guys a 3rd time through.^ THIS ^
Richter B, wait until you go through Chapter 4 and 5.. and then proceed into 6..
I don't know why castlevania is the only series fans want the music to be EXACTLY THE SAME every game.+
I don't know why castlevania is the only series fans want the music to be EXACTLY THE SAME every game.+
I don't think anyone wants it to be exactly the same, but no one wants it to be boring Hollywood-esque, either.And not everyone wants silly japo rock/electro/pop neither,
Future installments can at least afford to drop some more clear references of classic tunes. Music is one of the things that the series is known for, after all. Even the Metroid Prime games had a handful of rearrangements.
how did ahasverus like castlevania before los
how did ahasverus like castlevania before losDon't get me wrong, I love past games, it's just that I'm too ambitious sometimes and I want CV to be the best thing ever ever ever so I tend to be very picky.
Don't get me wrong, I love past games, it's just that I'm too ambitious sometimes and I want CV to be the best thing ever ever ever so I tend to be very picky.But, all songs don't have to fit in the context of the location themselves, but could be tied to the overall mood of the game, or the sense of quest. I mean, take "Vampire Killer", a song that's more based on the driving sense of adventure than ambent spooky castle hallways. Motifs don't always have to fit the subtext to a tee. Sometimes the look of a locations is one part of the atmosphere, while the music sets up a different, other half of the atmosphere. And sometimes i works like that. I'm not saying to have a location that cmposes of marble fixtures and giant statues, then musically contrast with a My Chemical Romance song(urg). I mean, sometimes it's not a bad thing to spice up the feel by doin something different. The jazzy sound of Crystal Teardrops springs to mind. Variety is the spice of life.
Just wait 'til the LOS hype fades and you'll see my picks and stuff again, it's a matter of time I know. I used to say Ecclesia was better than Symphony :P
I always hated the japo silliness though, I always liked the more "classy" Yamane tracks, Lament of Innnocence soundtrak for example didn't have a lot of memorable tunes (like LOS) but it's a beautiful score. Some of Symphony's songs are really moody (tell me that the Yamaoka-composed undergorund theme didn't rise chills at its time) and I'm not talking about only having dark music, Master Librarian's theme still brings a smile on my face, it's a beautiful bright catchy tune but IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE.
That's what I don't like about the japo/pop songs. They are too out of context, no Clockwork doesn't resembles a Clock tower, nor tower of dolls, Wicked child is really childish and not "wicked" at all, heart of fire is a kinda rejected 80's metal song, the same with tracks like "Colloseum", God there is A FUCKING SALSA TRACK in Ecclesia. Oh, and it was in a moody fog stage.
LoS score might be "unmemorable" but it fits. That's all I need. Just like LoI, some Symhony parts, even Bloodlines.
Especial mention to Curse of Darkness, even with it being a metal score It actually delivered sense of context. Kudos to Yamane - san.
But, all songs don't have to fit in the context of the location themselves, but could be tied to the overall mood of the game, or the sense of quest. I mean, take "Vampire Killer", a song that's more based on the driving sense of adventure than ambent spooky castle hallwayAbsolutely, note that I didn't mention Vampire Killer, it's still the absolutely my favouriter one of the pre-yamane era. It is really used in context, not lcoation-based context, but mood-based context. I get what you are saying, and i share your opinion, not every song has to be location-based. However, songs like wicked child or the bloody whole of portrait of ruin soundtrack, or Op 13 (don't make me start with Mary Samba) are really, really really not suitable at all, they are catchy playful tunes, now that's bad, they're just japo-pop tracks in the wrong place, they belong, I don't know, Parodius or Tokimeki Memorial, not Castlevania, at all.
Absolutely, note that I didn't mention Vampire Killer, it's still the absolutely my favouriter one of the pre-yamane era. It is really used in context, not lcoation-based context, but mood-based context. I get what you are saying, and i share your opinion, not every song has to be location-based. However, songs like wicked child or the bloody whole of portrait of ruin soundtrack, or Op 13 (don't make me start with Mary Samba) are really, really really not suitable at all, they are catchy playful tunes, now that's bad, they're just japo-pop tracks in the wrong place, they belong, I don't know, Parodius or Tokimeki Memorial, not Castlevania, at all.are you sure that mary samba doesn't fit?
That's not a past I would like to return to.
Idea: Prequel game with 3 character party of Zobek, Carmilla, and Cornell.^This.
This may be the most divisive Castlevania EVER
Early on I really enjoyed the game but after the plot froze in time and space for 9 chapters and the pause screen/bestiary was telling me more about the characters and plot than the rest of the game I became greatly disappointed. I'd like to say I'd enjoy seeing a sequel but I really don't think I'll enjoy where the plot is going. I hope IGA gets a budget again some day...
Well guys, I'm ready to get out of the closet.
I like Castlevania V far, far better than Rondo of Blood.
Now completed, seen the ending, and 110%'d half the chapters. Solid 8/10.
In some respects I think the game is too long, the story and narrative really drags on, but at the same time it's taken that long to really get into the meat of the combat and the magic system. The atmosphere is a strange beast. I’m trying to grasp something tangible from it, but left groping a little at thin air. The autumnal/wintery feel of the graphics, the solemnity of the story, the brutality and rawness of the enemies, characters that really give nothing away. The game feels bleak and crude at times. The framerate and game play almost runs hand in hand with that, at times it was frustrating, a borderline chore, you had to persevere with much: the story, Gabriel, the combat and magic system.
I warmed to it like to a camp fire. Slowly the heat got into the old bones of this player and it was good, the sense of occasion, to appreciate its shortcomings and simply enjoy it while it lasted. The one Chapter that sticks with me is XI, and the Necromancer's Abyss, because it combined some excellent platforming with shimmying sections, good puzzles, and excellent enemy design. If you fell into the abyss you’d be resurrected instantly—you didn’t become frustrated with it. The final lord was quite special I thought.
Going back through now and looking at how much they’ve managed to pack in . . . it’s just wow. No wonder they needed 2 discs.
NEAT QUESTION: Hey, I haven't beaten the whole thing yet, but something hit me: If you take the whip (combat cross) out of this game, replacing it with a sword or staff, would LoS cease to be Castlevania? It almost seems like that whip mechanic is the one unifying (classic/iconic) thing within all the diversity of this game.
NEAT QUESTION: Hey, I haven't beaten the whole thing yet, but something hit me: If you take the whip (combat cross) out of this game, replacing it with a sword or staff, would LoS cease to be Castlevania? It almost seems like that whip mechanic is the one unifying (classic/iconic) thing within all the diversity of this game.
NEAT QUESTION: Hey, I haven't beaten the whole thing yet, but something hit me: If you take the whip (combat cross) out of this game, replacing it with a sword or staff, would LoS cease to be Castlevania? It almost seems like that whip mechanic is the one unifying (classic/iconic) thing within all the diversity of this game.
NEAT QUESTION: Hey, I haven't beaten the whole thing yet, but something hit me: If you take the whip (combat cross) out of this game, replacing it with a sword or staff, would LoS cease to be Castlevania? It almost seems like that whip mechanic is the one unifying (classic/iconic) thing within all the diversity of this game.
NEAT QUESTION: Hey, I haven't beaten the whole thing yet, but something hit me: If you take the whip (combat cross) out of this game, replacing it with a sword or staff, would LoS cease to be Castlevania? It almost seems like that whip mechanic is the one unifying (classic/iconic) thing within all the diversity of this game.
No no... there is so much more than that. Maybe being that I am an older fan, and Simons Quest and CVIV are my faves, I get ALOT out of LoS, not just the whip..
If you remove the whip from LoS, it will be the same because the Combat Cross is not a whip. *rimshot*
Huh, so LoS is borrowing things from modern horror films you say?
Anyone heard anything new regarding the dlc? last i checked it's getting released with jap collectors edition, which i think comes out on December 16th.
Not only are there some Underworld influences, but am I the only one who thinks the castle layout is very similar to Drac's castle from the Van Helsing movie? I know I've said that on here a lot. Having 4 huge buildings all connected with big support chains...exactly how it was in the movie.Van Helsing was a big Castlevania Rip-off (sure, 2nd form drac? family damned to hunt drac for all Eternity? Vampie Castle at the top of a cliff? Drac AND Franksenstein toghether? hmmmm) but I really liked the "new" Castle though I see it more like an "expansion" of the Order of Ecclesia and Curse of Darkness "Cathedral type" Castle.
Ironically, Frankenstein's castle in the Van Helsing movie was laid out more like THE classic CV castle.
I just hope THE castle appears in the next game. I would love to see what MS could pull off with it's design.This is THE Castle man, this is the Bernhard Castle, and we all know how it will turn out :P . Now, I will say it again, this was the caste at it's primitive stage, without Dracula's power giving demonic attributes to it (even if it already has Chaos inside according to scrolls) so I'm sure we'll see it turning into the demon castle when we see the whole "rise of Dracula" part :)
This is THE Castle man, this is the Bernhard Castle, and we all know how it will turn out :P . Now, I will say it again, this was the caste at it's primitive stage, without Dracula's power giving demonic attributes to it (even if it already has Chaos inside according to scrolls) so I'm sure we'll see it turning into the demon castle when we see the whole "rise of Dracula" part :)
Thanks Richter. I TOTALLY see those Underworld parallels, too. To me, it just goes to show of how Mercury Steam pulled of so many tones. And I imagine it was a huge challenge to honor the old franchise and fans, yet do 'trendy' art choices, to gain mass appeal and create a new franchise, ahem. money maker :P
How far are you in the game?
In the N64 era, whether it was CV64 or Mario 64, or Banjo Kazooie, you at least knew where you could and couldn't jump, and could move the camera to see so. Somehow 3D games became more about the "cinematic experience" and less about the game; designs went from large open worlds sculpted within one giant 3D box to corridors with varying degrees of depth and a greater illusion of open space that is actually less interactive. LoS doesn't go to the extremes of CoD as far as corridors, but it's still far less open than it should be and doesn't hide its invisible walls well. I honestly just think the whole model of modern action games, as fun as they can be at times, is flawed.
CoD's Dracula's Castle was the test to see if you were really stupid enough to play through it despite how horrible you knew it was.
The castle might've sucked but the Dracula fight was good imo.
The Drac fight was pretty good but the castle itself just didn't seem right to me. From the way it appeared, to the physical structure itself (it was more cathedral than castle-like), to the goofy winding stairs to the keep, etc. It was just "off." The Abandoned Castle level at the beginning of CoD had a better design, layout, and atmosphere IMHO.
What traditions do you love and despise specifically?
But, I thought that there was way too much platforminglol seriously? LoS is bad because:
Or they should have had interesting, engaging platforming rather than a repetitious assault of rappelling and ledge-climbing.
Super Mario Galaxy 2?
LOS should have been a separate entity. =/
And in the end I was rather displeased with the final result.
Heh, on their defence... what was the last interesting 3d platformer? Uncharted 2 is often cited as the best of the best, and it's basically one gigantic QTE.well, you know, that's ledge climbing too so~
... despite Cox repeatedly saying it's not connected to the real timeline nor will ever be.
It's Konami's canon, not IGA's. He just added to the mythos. It's the official canon that's been established since 1986. Perhaps I should've said "original" canon? I'm sorry if it ruffles your feathers so much that Cox doesn't want his ideas to be officially recognized.
And as IGA could remove non-IGA games from the canon, Cox could in the future remove IGA games from it.
But overall, I don't really see the big issue. It's not like these stories are "real". None of this stuff really happened.
Didn't Cox say he doesn't wanna become "Mr. Castlevania?" Once Kojima takes over CV, ring the alarm, lol.
If we were to receive a new CV game done in that style rather then what we've been getting, then I think it would be much better received and be an overall success.
-X
I noticed something amusing. The famous path to Wygol village with the camera pan and snow that shows Carmilla's castle in LoS is EXTREMELY similar to the early part of level 3 in Devil May Cry 4 where Nero comes across the castle in the snow. Uncannily so.MFG yes it is :o the castle is very similar too. it didn't have the same impact though.
MFG yes it is :o the castle is very similar too. it didn't have the same impact though.
However, we know DMC is just a big Cv rip-off so what's the problem? xD
In all honesty (and twelve years ago I would not have said this) I think that the best 3D CV formula is only found in CV64/LoD. If we were to receive a new CV game done in that style rather then what we've been getting, then I think it would be much better received and be an overall success.
LoS was almost certainly gonna be a trainwreck by the look of things. Small budget, unexperienced studio... we should at the very least be glad we got something of this technical quality.
manfredo~(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inverteddungeon.com%2Fjorgefuentes%2Fimages3%2Flolmanfred.gif&hash=33c5dc04a1de323ea09ef0a86d32abb512184629)
You must have pretty generic, forgettable balls, then. :-[No, you just don't have musical taste that's all. That website is one of the most important worldwide regarding soundtracks, they review only one in a million game soundtracks ad they are very harsh witht them, that rating was, impressive to say the least.
No, you just don't have musical taste that's all.I do like a total of three songs from the OST, and i may like more in the future; I have it downloaded and on rare occasion I'll listen to it. The issue I have is that the soundtrack seems perfectly content being a repetitious wall of orchestral noise; it tries to define itself by it's sound, but it's sound is uninteresting when left on its own. There are very few moments with any real defined melody (one of which occurs at 0:54 in the song Besieged village, but is only played until just after the first minute, after which point the melody is not revisited).
That website is one of the most important worldwide regarding soundtracks, they review only one in a million game soundtracks ad they are very harsh witht them, that rating was, impressive to say the least.Why should this matter to me?
Why should this matter to me?Not you, but all the haters. They are better qualified that those yamane purists out there, they actually know what music is about, and I'm not talking about catchy tunes.
Not you, but all the haters. They are better qualified that those yamane purists out there, they actually know what music is about, and I'm not talking about catchy tunes.
Generic soundtrack? My balls :P
http://www.soundtrack.net/albums/database/?id=6300 (http://www.soundtrack.net/albums/database/?id=6300)
You are missing the point, that's not what music is about, go and make a proffessional musician say that Bloody Tears is a masterpiece and he will laugh in your face (Then probably punch you) now make a professional musician listen to LoS music and watch their reactions, because that's real music, not the music you hear in radio and stuff, but music as art; I won't discuss this anymore, I think I'm wasting my time if you are not real musicians (not arrangers nor remixers, ACADEMIC musicians) and your mind is completely closed. Melodies are in there, they are hummable as ever, but if you can't listen through more than 3 chords, I'm done.
BTW, I doubt Cox is going to change his mind about music, it was him who posted soundtrack.net review after all...
Not you, but all the haters. They are better qualified that those yamane purists out there, they actually know what music is about, and I'm not talking about catchy tunes.I want to specify that that isn't entirely my point (if you're even asserting that's the case); It isn't' about catchiness, or even how melodic something is; sometimes, it works. I appreciate atmospheric and minimalistic music, I appreciate music that focuses more energy on emotion and feeling rather than just melody. ICO has several minimalistic ambient pieces, all of which I enjoy; much of Battlestar Galactica's music edges closer to minimalism or incredibly rythmic percussion (although the later seasons develop a fuller sound with more in the way of melody-driven music), and those are soundtracks that I adore (mostly).
Also, I think rappelling across huge ravines and gothic castles where Gabriel can plummet a million feet any second is considered epic enough, Joachim~sorry thernz he was only TEN FEET off the ground.
Uhh...you're not talking to musicians. (most of us, anyway) We don't CARE about what other great composers think. We know what we want. We're the fans, and we know that themes on Bloody Tears, whilst not a great example of musical composure, works for us because of the simplicity and the catchiness. Who cares if some Mr. So-And-So the Great Magical Musician God says is sucks horsey bollocks. It's worked for most of us for two decades.
REAL music? That's totally subjective material. You are totally entitled to your opinion that Los's music is grand. However I'm saying it didn't tickle my fancy, and gave reasons as to why. I'm saying it because it seems to be an argument that alot of other fans are having.
Also I think your point about 2D and 3D games is far too generalizing. They're both wholly different beasts when dealing with mechanics. If anything, the way you're describing the 2D games suggests a far more harmonic pace in level design since they are able to combine elements and you are describing 3D games like they are action movies that move scene to scene, but each one has a wildly different pace because it cannot successfully merge its distinct elements. Of course, the way LoS and other games are built, that seems intentional. But I kinda find that to be an odd game design decision, stratifying the elements and building bulk rather than creating a lean set of abilities that can be used in many contexts, harmonic with each other. I'm not really arguing that the use of a single song is better than contextual music, I'm just sayin'.
I happen to like a lot of the music from LoS. It's the reason I crank out my 10-speaker Home Theatre system when I play. But while it is quite great, it is not memorable.
If you want a more apples to apples comparison, I can easily hum the Star Wars theme that John Williams composed. There isn't a single tune from LoS that is memorable enough to 'stick'. One can argue that it is an irrelevance to the soundtrack, but I think it's relevant for a Castlevania soundtrack. To ignore this is to forget a key aspect of the franchise, in my opinion.
In a game like LoS, if there's epic booming music on and you're standing still, you're gonna die, because epic booming fight music = monsters onscreen. No monster onscreen? Relaxed/ominous/suspenseful music cue.Not quite, I've seen several meaningless shifts in tonality while simply wandering around or exploring or "platforming" in the game.
Not quite, I've seen several meaningless shifts in tonality while simply wandering around or exploring or "platforming" in the game.
context is all it has, and contextually speaking, it is poorly handled.
and to call it "removed" from the game is a bit much; it simply serves its purpose differently. the music as a whole is more cohesively defined to represent the atmosphere and feeling of an entire area rather than just a single haphazard moment.
I'm not sure what to say, because in a game like Ocarina of Time, you have variations on a theme when you're standing still. You have a 'battle theme' that interjects when you're ambushed by an enemy or group of enemies (in fact, you have varying battle themes). This started back then (even the N64 Castlevanias did this). It was even further polished in Wind Waker with the Ocean music. Serene music, Battle music, Big Battle music, etc. all seamlessly interweaving into the themes the games have.
Thus, it is not an excuse not to have great memorable music that cannot have its big moments. A beautiful tune like "Waterfalls" (which is one of the few I can remember from the LoS soundtrack) plays, then enemies show up and interrupt it with a battle theme, then it plays again. This worked!
Why not do that only with more tunes, or with tunes that, while they may not be 'epic' (I hate using this word 'cuz it's just stupid these days in its overuse, like saying "Raw" or "Brutal", as someone else pointed out in another thread), they are beautiful, [underline]memorable,[/underline] and defining of an area. It would have been nice if I heard a tune appropriate for a clock tower, and a tune appropriate for the necromancer's abyss, and a tune for Wygol village. Whether they are subtle, have big crescendos, the ability to be interrupted, or fast-paced versions when the action comes in or not, I know it could have been done, because I saw it happen 10+ years ago with N64 games, and later on with some Gamecube games.
But they do nothing to represent the onscreen events or action, and thus are removed and disconnected.yes, they do nothing to consciously represent it (as in, changing contextually), but that does not mean it is disconnected or that somehow it doesn't 'fit' with the action; the songs are intentionally designed to fit a myriad of differing contexts. heavenly doorway in symphony of the night has the feeling of both a dreadful atmosphere and pulsating action/exploration, and many songs follow in this vein.
heavenly doorway in symphony of the night has the feeling of both a dreadful atmosphere and pulsating action/exploration, and many songs follow in this vein.
When everything is painted in bright colours and your palette is fundamentally limited to saturated, pastel tones, how do you tell the player that hallway is ominous and scary?fundamentally limited to bright colors and saturated pastel tones? that was an artistic decision on the behalf of the pixel artists, not something that was ultimately required (exception: the NES titles). nosferatu for the snes, for example, uses a very muted and dark color scheme:
On weaker hardware, music takes easily the front seat because it's the most expressive tool the game designer has.that's... purely your own opinion, your own perspective; objectively speaking that isn't really substantiated. you're approaching the matter from a musical bias; you can easily approach those games from a visual standpoint and find much to delight over: you say that the weaker hardware "doesn't matter" in regards to music, but the exact same argument could be made for pixel art.
It's about suspension of disbelief - and before you ask, I'm not entirely sure it's a desireable evolution of the medium. I don't see a photorealistic 3D game working with an OST approach similar to that of older CV games, but I definitely do not want to think the future has no more room for more traditionally designed games.it doesn't have to be similar to the "older" CV titles, or at least most of them; legacy of darkness had a much more ambient and subdued tone and yet it worked well. Similarly, there are games like Demon's Souls which use a more 'modern' approach to music (there is a lot of silence, with most of the music centering around boss themes), but unlike Lords, it works fantastically in all circumstances and the songs themselves are well-composed, fitting, expressive and memorable.
and even so, there were still quite a few grays and a wide spectrum of colors similar to this; it was more than possible to create something using dull and muted colors, even on the super nintendo.
that's... purely your own opinion, your own perspective; objectively speaking that isn't really substantiated. you're approaching the matter from a musical bias; you can easily approach those games from a visual standpoint and find much to delight over: you say that the weaker hardware "doesn't matter" in regards to music, but the exact same argument could be made for pixel art.
it doesn't have to be similar to the "older" CV titles, or at least most of them; legacy of darkness had a much more ambient and subdued tone and yet it worked well. Similarly, there are games like Demon's Souls which use a more 'modern' approach to music (there is a lot of silence, with most of the music centering around boss themes), but unlike Lords, it works fantastically in all circumstances and the songs themselves are well-composed, fitting, expressive and memorable.
arguably, shadow of the colossus could also fit here; it has environmental themes, but they are appear rarely and more as an interesting introduction; its music is driven by context, but this has no qualitative effect on the music itself.
I would have a terrible time thinking of any of my favourite CV tunes as "cohesively representing the atmosphere and feeling of an entire area". What does Vampire Killer or Bloody Tears represent? The Land of Exciting Combat™ ;D ?
I think in this case "harmonic" is a very generous way to say "flat". Besides, it's not like in most 2D games the music always fits what's happening on screen - it basically never does. It doesn't even try.bro, I wasn't saying that harmonic game elements required the use of a single tune across a level. SoTC handles its different elements very cohesively and uses contextual music still. I was just saying that your division between 2D and 3D games was generalized. The whole trend between segregating platforming and action only happened recently in 3D action games. Back on the PS1, there were games like Blasto that were better at merging its elements of platforming and shooting into cohesive level design. Besides, LoI and CoD aren't really harmonic in their game elements either. The slow exploration in LoI completely clashes with the fast paced combat. I wasn't really talking about the music in that second paragraph heh.
Music is always at its full breath of expression; quality of delivery is the only aspect affected by hardware.Limited color palettes and sizes are the same as limited sound channels and limited available instruments. They are no different: just as 'a tune' is good in midi form, an image, a reaction, is good in sprite or pixel form as well. You're tricking yourself if you're thinking that somehow it isn't. *
Visuals are absolutely limited by hardware; the inability to use, say, camera pans or zooming or dynamic lighting directly affect the way you can interwine the narrative in your visuals.inability? you keep speaking of all these things as if they are absolutes, impossible: i don't think you understand what is and what is not possible in regards pixel art. You're acting as if the fact that things were done a specific way means it was not possible to do it any other way; this is a fallacy. It is possible to create relatively dynamic lighting in pixel art or 2D games - the issue being that it would be incredibly monotonous and time-consuming to do so, and there may be issues with memory depending on the console and the intended scope of the system. Camera pans are a matter of cinematography, not necessarily the same thing as the visuals themselves but rather a matter of the way these visuals progress.
into account, you see that it's very hard to make a "dark" 2D image because being a piece of flat pixel art... it's flat....everything displayed on a monitor is innately flat; it doesn't matter if it's "rendered" in 3D, it's still nothing more than an illusion; an illusion which is perfectly capable of being copied with traditional art.
I honestly find most of the soundtrack to be sensibly worse than LoS - as in, miles behind.Demon's Souls OST 06 - Phalanx (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNV9UXu6PFM#) If you say so~
Valtiel, the music doesn't need to choose between being atmospheric and still be strong, classic like songs. Look at the game Nier (a 3D game by the way), they used great, melodic music that is constantly playing, but they also add and remove tracks in order to make it fit the scene. For instance, in the shrine near the beginning of the game, there is a constant, memorable choir. When enemies approach the percussion fades in, and when you finished killing them, they fade out. The simple use of adding or subtracting the percussion did wonders for the games atmosphere, and they still kept a strong, defining melody for every area. The game also used a unique, memorable track for every area, that still fit perfectly in every environment and situation, and used similar tricks to make sure the songs always projected the correct atmosphere. Melody driven music absolutely can work in 3D.
To be honest, I don't know about that.
That'd be an interesting reason why there weren't many memorable tracks though... but something tells me this is not the case.
I don't dislike them. I don't feel in any particular way towards them. I think that's more of the problem.
I am... indifferent. Not to say they're not good (they're pretty great), but they don't seem to fit, except in some key instances. For the most part the music is on the far back of this ride.
I have a soft spot for Simon's Quest.
Of the newest outings, I *really* like LoI's soundtrack. In many ways as "different" as LoS', but still incredibly awesome.
I groove to CVJudgment's music on a daily basis. :D
I don't know, I'm not too hot for Judgement. It's... too much. Too angry, to dirty. It may be because I play guitar and almost all those remixes are guitar driven and I wouldn't play the old tunes that way. It's definitely too fast, for my tastes. CV music is upbeat, not trash metal.I'm not agree at all. The music for Castlevania Judgament is almost perfect. The game is a horrible amount of garbage, from the designs to the gameplay, but I can't stop hearing that awesome tunes ;).
I really can't enjoy the Judgment soundtrack. I do however like the Dracula Battle albums.
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Also, Miley Cyrus turned 18 today.
The best CV music IMO is Belmont's revenge soundtrack; no other game will ever have the gothic-yet-not-cheesy-but-classy tone of that whole game, every track is not just good VG music, just change the 6bit chiptone for a piano and you have some masterful solo pieces. That's the unbeateable soundtrack for me and second place is LoS' (Third is Curse of Darkness, great stuff there too)
The best CV music IMO is Belmont's revenge soundtrack; no other game will ever have the gothic-yet-not-cheesy-but-classy tone of that whole game, every track is not just good VG music, just change the 6bit chiptone for a piano and you have some masterful solo pieces. That's the unbeateable soundtrack for me and second place is LoS' (Third is Curse of Darkness, great stuff there too)