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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: cecil-kain on August 29, 2011, 11:33:02 AM

Title: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: cecil-kain on August 29, 2011, 11:33:02 AM
Topic.  Please comment on why, and let's choose to disagree with civility.  :-)
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: A-Yty on August 29, 2011, 11:40:42 AM
I haven't played Judgment, but I'd imagine even that is a more enjoyable experimence than CoD - once you can ignore the fact that the characters look like total perversions. CoD was simply a pain to play. The ID system was nice, but it wasn't enough to save the gameplay.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Chernabogue on August 29, 2011, 11:50:57 AM
I don't know. Maybe a N64 game, I didn't liked them much. CoD was fucking slow too.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on August 29, 2011, 12:26:56 PM
Curse of Darkness.

Those HUGE areas and that slow as hector really killed me lol.

I just hated that about the game.

Also the complete lack of platforming did not help either.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: crisis on August 29, 2011, 12:46:24 PM
Culse of Dalkness only cuz it fails as a sequel
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Nagumo on August 29, 2011, 01:22:47 PM
Lords of Shadow. Though I wouldn't say it's the worst of these games. It just fails as a Castlevania game.     
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Koutei on August 29, 2011, 01:25:45 PM
Curse of Darkness is very boring. I fell asleep while gripping the controller.

Judgment and Lords of Shadow, I have not played these.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on August 29, 2011, 01:26:46 PM
The winner for this Razzie award goes to...
...Castlevania: Curse of Darkness.

-Took all the bad stuff from LoI and expanded upon it.
-There were some terribly useless areas
-No height in most of the game (just long-ass corridors that led to long-ass rooms that led to more long-ass corridors.  Repead ad nauseum).
-Hector literally looked like he was going nowhere fast (ran a lot but at a very slow speed).

Some not-so-real reasons:
-Innocent Devil system did not seem to be 'in the spirit' of Castlevania, to me.
-Isaac bugs the crap out of me
-Although Trevor Belmont was damn awesome, it was a far cry from a true sequel to CVIII, which is a shame.
-The artwork for that game was not Ayami Kojima's best (tiny head Hector, Scissor-leg Trevor, 'showing you my crotch' Isaac).

LoI was a better game... though that's not saying much, as I did not like LoI that much either (found it boring).

Lords of Shadow is a better game, in terms of gameplay mechanics (sans QTEs, and more platforming that's not wall-shimmying).  LoS could've taken some elements from LoI/CoD (mostly in the music department), but it's not a bad game.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: VladCT on August 29, 2011, 01:30:11 PM
Well it did say 3D games, though to be fair it's not on the topic title.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on August 29, 2011, 01:41:42 PM
Yeah I just saw.  x_X
That topic title needs some 3D in there, 'cuz although I read the title when clicking, I did not read the subtitle before the poll.

**goes to fix**
Time to edit my previous post, too!
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: PFG9000 on August 29, 2011, 01:44:25 PM
Judgment.  I watched my brother play it on his Wii before I had my own, and I believe I even played a few rounds.  But now I have a Wii and I have Judgment in my collection, but I just can't bring myself to play it.  I'm really not interested.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Harrycombs on August 29, 2011, 01:50:34 PM
I really, really hate Lament. I actually enjoyed Curse of Darkness more, as at least the crafting and innocent devils were fun to play with.

I haven't been able to finish Lament... its just so boring :-\
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on August 29, 2011, 01:55:06 PM
Judgment.  I watched my brother play it on his Wii before I had my own, and I believe I even played a few rounds.  But now I have a Wii and I have Judgment in my collection, but I just can't bring myself to play it.  I'm really not interested.

At least the music is awesome.  That, and they flesh out the characters and their relationships a little more, thus making them more interesting (even if they're so gaudy to look at, sometimes).
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on August 29, 2011, 02:28:16 PM
Curse of Darkness is very boring. I fell asleep while gripping the controller.

Judgment and Lords of Shadow, I have not played these.

This is pretty much my response, ha. As such, I can't really vote, but COD is baaaad.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: VladCT on August 29, 2011, 02:38:33 PM
Personally, Judgment was pretty fail to me because of the characterization of a certain character.
I mean, turning Maria from a brave, virtuous little girl into a stereotypical boobie-obsessed pettanko was just...
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.gelbooru.com%2F%2Fimages%2F809%2Febe9af1e1998241feaeb0e88971abb67.gif&hash=46b9864aac4f0c083c009ad7eea1c56d81544e71)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: shelverton. on August 29, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
It's CoD for me too. Mostly because it had so much potential. It could've been the first good 3D Metroidvania, but ended up being a slooooow, ridiculously large and empty game that felt a lot longer than it really was. HOWEVER; The music is incredible throughout the game. Such a waste.

Lament was very boring too, but at least it wasn't quite as ugly to look at.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: whitedragon_nall on August 29, 2011, 04:03:39 PM
Judgment. Hated the redesigns. Hated the combat. The only thing I really like about it is the soundtrack.

Runner-up goes to Lords of Shadow. LoS is a good game, I just feel it failed on the Castlevania part of it.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: X on August 29, 2011, 05:13:30 PM
I can't just pick one of them cause there are soooo many bad 3D CV's. If it were the opposite then I'd vote CV64/LoD as the best. The only thing successful about any of the others is the soundtrack (putting aside LoS as I'm not too keen on it's music).
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on August 29, 2011, 06:34:17 PM
Lament was very boring too, but at least it wasn't quite as ugly to look at.

I think the atmosphere and graphics (note: not level design) are what kept me playing LOI; I even replayed it a few times.

COD has no interesting atmosphere, the level designs are incredibly open and spacious and boring to traverse, and the music unfortunately doesn't save it—just a lousy experience overall. And LOI's poor level designing is about a hundred times better and is actually good by comparison.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: JR on August 29, 2011, 06:53:55 PM
The level design is what killed CoD for me, too. It's my least favorite 3D game. I think the fact that this game followed LoI made all of the flat levels even worse. Before playing it, I'd assumed that the developers had taken the fans' complains about LoI to heart, so I was surprised to see that the level design was actually worse in this one.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: crisis on August 29, 2011, 07:00:08 PM
apparently CoD was modeled right after Nanobreaker...


Can we count/add Akumajo Dracula:The Arcade? It's also a 3D game technically, granted no1 here prolly has played it but still....
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on August 29, 2011, 08:02:42 PM
Curse of Darkness is very boring. I fell asleep while gripping the controller.

Judgment and Lords of Shadow, I have not played these.

This. I haven't played Judgment and LoS either.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on August 29, 2011, 09:13:48 PM
Curse of Darkness. This fails on every aspect.
Stage design are huge, empty, and Fucking boring! can't enjoy the scenery nor can I interact with anything.
Just because it references cv3 that doesn't make this game a castlevania game at all. Cause Nanobreaker without platforming screams castlevanmia, right?
this game is fun only for the gimmicks. I beat this game and was very dissapointed.

Furst Runner up, Castlevania 64
Game has a broken code, you can get indefinitely stuck, a fatal flaw in any game.

Second runner up, Castlevania judgement.
AIs abuse the broken combat system constantly, this would be tolerable on a Very Hard difficulty. but this is normal.


LoS isn't on the list because its the best castlevania can do in 3D, Kojima Pruductions may have butchered the Castlevania out of it but its at leat plausible to be castlevania.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Deko21 on August 29, 2011, 09:39:57 PM
I can't really say since i haven't played most of the 3Dvanias. But my vote would have to go to 64 because that game had some bad gameplay and it was confusing in some areas.
Title: Re: The biggest FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on August 29, 2011, 10:07:28 PM
Curse of Darkness.

Those HUGE areas and that slow as hector really killed me lol.

I just hated that about the game.

Also the complete lack of platforming did not help either.

This. Haven't played Judgment yet so I can't bash it outside of the crap redesigns. 
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Kusanagi on August 30, 2011, 02:02:55 AM
Curse of Darkness for me. To be fair, I haven't gotten to play all of the 3d games (only played this, N64 and Judgement), but one thing that really bugged me about curse of darkness was how easily you could get lost (the backgrounds and some of the rooms didn't have much distinctive features for me to help me tell where I am exactly). At one point I ended up going back a few rooms from where I intended to, just because all the rooms didn't have anything that really stood out for them.

Though that opinion might be a bit unfair, I only played about 2-3 hours of the game before I got dizzy/bored and left it. In the end I still prefer the 2d games overall
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: cecil-kain on August 30, 2011, 02:42:36 AM
Very interesting results....  Thank you all.  The the final piece of the puzzle will soon be in place....
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Green Stranger on August 30, 2011, 05:17:47 AM
I think all the 3D games had their weak points but they all yielded something memorable to the series in some way or another.

Not to go off topic but... I remember many years back this forum was usually talking about what was good about Castlevania lol. I don't expect a change of scenery with the attitude of the fanbase but the unparalleled ranting is just silly. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of things that have gone wrong with the series but to continue to dwell upon obvious shortcomings?  :-\

It's understood that most of the CV fanbase is unhappy about something or the other, but it should be realized that this franchise has never been huge and to think that Konami is still managing to spit out new CV games is pretty crazy. At this point you might as well take what you can get 3D or 2D and just make the best of it. Enjoy it for what it was things are never going to go back to "CV3 Dracula's Curse" or anything classic of that nature.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on August 30, 2011, 05:52:01 AM
I think it's ridiculous to accept subpar games just because it's all we're fed. Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth was a pretty damn good throwback to the classics, so it's not like Konami can't deliver the goods. Of course, Konami didn't develop that, but there's certainly room for Konami to put the property in competent hands.

They got WayForward to do Contra 4, which everybody agrees kicks ass. No reason they shouldn't allow them to do a Classicvania.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on August 30, 2011, 07:17:19 AM
El Shaddai is what a 3d castlevania should be like... too bad they never did it like that...
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Ahasverus on August 30, 2011, 07:46:34 AM
El Shaddai is what a 3d castlevania should be like... too bad they never did it like that...
El Shaddai has gotten mediocre reviews, that's NOT how a 3D Castlevania should be like. I'm pretty pleased with LoS 85 at Metacritic.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: A-Yty on August 30, 2011, 07:51:42 AM
I think that these days you've got to dig deeper if you're gonna base your opinion on reviews.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on August 30, 2011, 08:54:45 AM
Lords. Every 3D installment in this series has its share of mechanical problems, so it comes down to the aesthetic and the like. Lords' is one of the least engaging art directions I've ever seen in a video game. It's so joyless in its tiresome exposition, too, like the developers really believed they'd crafted something of worth and didn't want humour to distract from it. Except when it invokes mindbogglingly asinine Internet meme references for comic relief, I suppose. The tone of the game is all fucked, is what I'm saying. It does practically nothing well, aside from pumping out some high-poly vistas often enough.

Judgment's probably just as bad for what it is, but hell if I played it.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Purple Eyes on August 30, 2011, 09:49:58 AM
I haven't played Curse of Darkness or Lament of Innocence, but I was pretty displeased with Legacy of Darkness. It was way too much like Castlevania 64 to for me to really enjoy it :S
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on August 30, 2011, 10:45:33 AM
Apparently, Lords of Shadow failed to top CV64/LoD and LoI.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Sumac on August 30, 2011, 12:07:24 PM
Quote
It's understood that most of the CV fanbase is unhappy about something or the other, but it should be realized that this franchise has never been huge and to think that Konami is still managing to spit out new CV games is pretty crazy. At this point you might as well take what you can get 3D or 2D and just make the best of it. Enjoy it for what it was things are never going to go back to "CV3 Dracula's Curse" or anything classic of that nature.
I am agree that "eternal ranting" is bad, however if you look at the other longtime fandoms it's all the same. Seems some of the long time fans already have they own ideas how the games should and don't accept anything that goes against they vision. Bad for them.

As for the poll - I didn't play some of those games, but I liked CV64 and LOI. Both of them have shortcomings (LOI have more of them in terms of gameplay), but in general they were enjoyable games. As for the LOD, while I didn't liked it, it's so similar to CV64, that if I will vote for it, it will like if I vote against CV64 too.
Sadly I've nver played COD, since I am really interested what my opinion about this game could be. I hated backtracking and samey rooms in LOI, so I'd believe COD won't be an enjoyable experience for me.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Ahasverus on August 30, 2011, 02:48:00 PM
Apparently, Lords of Shadow failed to top CV64/LoD and LoI.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lprsigJfWE1qbsda0.jpg&hash=a5608a2b57ffdf4e2d388cd5df97bff60a3a5839)

Seriously.. what?
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Inccubus on August 30, 2011, 02:52:53 PM
Judgement was terrible. As a CV game it failed to have anything from CV that wasn't mangled by character art and/or sloppy, thoughtless characterization. It's controls sucked, and wasn't much more than a glorified Smash Bros with none of the nostalgic value. It just isn't a good game.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: OdenAndEvil on August 30, 2011, 04:58:39 PM
N64 games.
I didnt enjoy them at all. CoD was damn slow and so on, but the n64 ones...enuff said
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on August 30, 2011, 05:12:13 PM
El Shaddai has gotten mediocre reviews, that's NOT how a 3D Castlevania should be like. I'm pretty pleased with LoS 85 at Metacritic.

Because reviews are always good ways to determine how worthy a game is, amirite?

Oh wait, God Hand IGN review.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on August 30, 2011, 06:31:27 PM
El Shaddai has gotten mediocre reviews, that's NOT how a 3D Castlevania should be like. I'm pretty pleased with LoS 85 at Metacritic.

You taking about the same guys who pretty much get paid to make good revies for shitty games to give into the hype?

El Shaddai was fucking Awesome, only problem was that the graphics clashed with the mapping at times.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: narkolepsi on August 30, 2011, 07:03:50 PM
LoS. I'd say more, but Puwexil put it perfectly enough. It just doesn't feel right. It's an exploitation and nothing more.

Then again, Curse of Darkness is much the same way. To me, Hector doesn't carry the image of a CV hero, and it's so hard to care about the characters overall, except for Trevor, because, well, he's Trevor.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Successor The Cruel on August 30, 2011, 07:53:21 PM
Lords of Shadow. I admit that several of the other 3D Castlevania games suck (most of them, really), but Lords of Shadow, Castlevania or not, is just something I don't and can't support at all. Kinda' like how I can't support drunk driving. Lords just crosses a line that none of the others do. Lords of Shadow is the only one on the list I'd call a complete travesty and an embarrassment not worthy of its title, and an offense to the series and its fans (though, I recognize not all fans view it as such).
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on August 30, 2011, 08:30:42 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lprsigJfWE1qbsda0.jpg&hash=a5608a2b57ffdf4e2d388cd5df97bff60a3a5839)

Seriously.. what?

Based on the poll result, LoS seems to get more hate than CV64/LoD and LoI. Look at it, dude.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on August 30, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
Lords of Shadow. I admit that several of the other 3D Castlevania games suck (most of them, really), but Lords of Shadow, Castlevania or not, is just something I don't and can't support at all. Kinda' like how I can't support drunk driving. Lords just crosses a line that none of the others do. Lords of Shadow is the only one on the list I'd call a complete travesty and an embarrassment not worthy of its title, and an offense to the series and its fans (though, I recognize not all fans view it as such).

I think Crisis put it best when he said the best way to approach LoS is as if it were Castlevania: The Game of the Movie. It helps me appreciate it much more as a retelling that has only the very base elements of Castlevania (guy with whip, anachronistic jumble of environments, creatures from random mythologies). Which isn't to say that it's completely flawless (QTEs, wall-shimmying, and Titans suck, not to mention the game was way too bright to be called Lords of SHADOW), but I don't think it was a train wreck or anything. I hope the sequel emphasizes the horror aspect of it much more.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Sumac on August 30, 2011, 09:08:46 PM
Quote
(guy with whip, anachronistic jumble of environments, creatures from random mythologies)
What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

Quote
was way too bright to be called Lords of SHADOW
If we go in that territory than some of the previous CV games didn't matched they title. Like Dawn of Sorrow for example. It wasn't that "sorrowful". But I personally don't consider this game as "Castlevania", along with AOS.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on August 30, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

Uh... that was the point. Those were some of the base elements of Castlevania that Lords of Shadow did have. Which made me appreciate it much more going back to it.

And, yeah, some of the newer Castlevania games aside from LoS are way too bright and happy for a traditionally action-horror series. The first two DS ones come to mind.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Inccubus on August 30, 2011, 10:37:13 PM
I think Crisis put it best when he said the best way to approach LoS is as if it were Castlevania: The Game of the Movie. It helps me appreciate it much more as a retelling that has only the very base elements of Castlevania (guy with whip, anachronistic jumble of environments, creatures from random mythologies). Which isn't to say that it's completely flawless (QTEs, wall-shimmying, and Titans suck, not to mention the game was way too bright to be called Lords of SHADOW), but I don't think it was a train wreck or anything. I hope the sequel emphasizes the horror aspect of it much more.

If LoS were the game of the movie, I'd organize a lynching for the bastard that wrote that script. Not to mention there'd be no way you'd get me to pay money to watch said hypothetical piece of Hollywood detritus.

Actually, thinking about it in those term makes me wonder if somehow Hollywood DID have a hand in LoS. The way the story was crafted makes perfect sense through the distorted, nonsensical lens of a Hollywood producer.

Wow. Looking at it this way actually makes me hate it MORE.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on August 30, 2011, 10:40:45 PM
If LoS were the game of the movie I'd organize a lynching for the bastard that wrote that script.

Pretty much. Not like good plot has ever been a Castlevania staple, but it was quite awful. Especially all the lines ripped from Star Wars.

The only things I liked about it were the concept of good/evil doubles and the plot behind the Castle.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: uzo on August 30, 2011, 10:42:46 PM
[BEST]
-
- Lords of Shadow - May not be what you perfectly want in Castlevania but it's the best 3d game of them all, hands down.
-
- LoI - Kinda flat and repetitive level design, but has solid core gameplay
-
- CoD - Flat/boring level design, but still responsive controls and a variety of combat features
-
- 64/LoD - It's level design is good, but cannot save it from the huge glaring issues of; terrible camera, sluggish unresponsive controls, and it's shallow ill-designed for 3D combat
-
[WORST]
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: C Belmont on August 30, 2011, 11:01:22 PM
I was gonna vote for LOS but the decision to have castlevania's characters redesigned for Judgement was just so glaringly stupid that I decided to pick Judgement instead.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on August 30, 2011, 11:12:46 PM
[BEST]
-
- Lords of Shadow - May not be what you perfectly want in Castlevania but it's the best 3d game of them all, hands down.
-
- LoI - Kinda flat and repetitive level design, but has solid core gameplay
-
- CoD - Flat/boring level design, but still responsive controls and a variety of combat features
-
- 64/LoD - It's level design is good, but cannot save it from the huge glaring issues of; terrible camera, sluggish unresponsive controls, and it's shallow ill-designed for 3D combat
-
[WORST]

Where is Judgment?
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Mortificator on August 30, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
The first version of the 64 game (Castlevania) was an incomplete mess, but the improved re-release (Legacy of Darkness) was pretty good. If Konami had given KCEK enough time and simply published the second version in the first place, I think the game would have had a much better reception. Allowing all four scenarios to be played at the start would have also probably made the game more accessible.

Curse of Darkness is to Lament of Innocence as Dawn of Sorrow is to Aria of Sorrow.

Lords of Shadow was a God of War clone using the Castlevania name to prop it up.

And I haven't played enough of Judgment to pass... judgment.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: X on August 30, 2011, 11:29:36 PM
Quote
Where is Judgment?

Maybe it was so bad that it didn't make uzo's list. It could be just below the [WORST] section I wager.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 30, 2011, 11:41:52 PM
Judgement...hands down.  You all can lynch mob LoS for not being a "real" Castlevania all you want, but Judgement...even when set to decent CV music...still fails to feel anything remotely like part of the franchise.  And it's a horrible excuse for a fighting game ON TOP of that.  A fail in the truest sense of the word.  At least CoD had recognizable CV creatures and characters and some amusing gameplay elements.

I haven't played Curse of Darkness or Lament of Innocence, but I was pretty displeased with Legacy of Darkness. It was way too much like Castlevania 64 to for me to really enjoy it :S
Umm...You DO realize that Legacy of Darkness was meant to be CV64 Special Edition....right???
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: VladCT on August 30, 2011, 11:47:36 PM
Judgement...hands down.  You all can lynch mob LoS for not being a "real" Castlevania all you want, but Judgement...even when set to decent CV music...still fails to feel anything remotely like part of the franchise.  And it's a horrible excuse for a fighting game ON TOP of that.  A fail in the truest sense of the word.  At least CoD had recognizable CV creatures and characters and some amusing gameplay elements.
Not to mention the sloppy as hell characterization, the worst offender was Stereotypical Pettanko Maria.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on August 31, 2011, 01:58:10 AM
What on this list wasn't in the previous games in the series?

Curse of Darkness.
It had a Guy with weapons (Beside the point) who goes around the same elements beating up Monsters which have much less mythology than the other games.
If this is a castlevania game and LoS isn't in your eyes, you should seriously start playing castlevania games instead of pretending to.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Neobelmont on August 31, 2011, 05:17:30 AM
Odd all 3D vanias did something right yet lacked something from being a true home runner yet Judgement was an odd ball cool concept but just did not work well, CV64 bad camera angles love Legacy of darkness due to the fact that the camera was fixed for the most part and control and characters, Lament on Innocence was a big chance to bring back CV in a big way but they messed up sure combat was fast,simple, and somewhat deep but the lack of platforming killed me and the jumping was very odd and of course the bland level design, Curse of Darkness the only reason I wanted to play this was Trevor I did not really like Hectors gameplay I just like whipping things, and Lords of Shadow had combat, platforming, music, and good level design, yet at the same time it could have been a little more refined while the combat was good I felt that some of the moves were just filler, yes there was platforming but not in the sense as how CV LoD did it it was not though, but rather it just felt so automatic no sense of danger, music to me was good love Belmont's theme yet the teasing with classic themes then and there shows that it could be a whole lot more memorable, and the scenery was awesome a lot of detail. I can not see how Lords is getting hated so much to me it feels very much a CV title well to me at least :) 
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: RichterB on August 31, 2011, 05:36:01 AM
Hmm. I honestly can't vote yet. I've played all the games on this list, but the qualification of "enjoyment" is tricky. One thing I know for sure is that Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness are the best 3D Castlevania games and can still be enjoyed on repeat plays longer than the others. (So those two are definitely VERY enjoyable*see end of post). Also, Lament of Innocence is better than Curse of Darkness (not to say that CoD doesn't have redeeming factors like its camera system). Judgment--does it even count? I mean, it's a side/concept/novelty game like The Arcade. It can be amusing, despite its faults. Lords of Shadow is almost just as a weird beast in some ways. And I'm tempted to say it's the most disappointing because it had next-gen resources and had a number of 3D examples to use as reference for refinement. Not to mention that it felt like a roughly 85% Hollywood distortion of Castlevania. I've tried replaying it on numerous occasions--as recently as two or three days ago, and its problems become more glaring. While I had begrudging fun with it the first time through, I find it a very constricted, boxed in game. CoD was monotonous hallways, but LoS feels like it's made of restricted set pieces that feel mechanically broken and it's hard to know where you can and cannot go. For example, the huge ogre that smashes out of the fortress. When it starts that, the game stutters and then you get into these segments where you can't move forward until it gets done with a set amount of animations, even though little goblins are attacking you and there is a two-foot-tall obstruction blocking your path that would be easy to jump over. The game is filled with these moments. It feels so gimmicky and slapdash, despite some truly excellent visual flourishes/vistas. The jumping mechanics themselves feel so ridiculously loose that they were never intended for any serious platforming based on the player's choice/skill (a key CV concept). The game just doesn't trust the player, making it almost as guilty as the fundamental arena/hallway flaws of LoI and CoD. There's absolutely nothing with the skill-based freedom and dynamic structure of, say, Level 2 of CV64. LoS is still too obsessed with overzealous and superfluous combos. I mean, it doesn't even feel as open in design as God of War.

So, all that said, the battle is between Curse of Darkness, Castlevania Judgment, and Lords of Shadow. Judgment is so niche and irrelevant that I don't think I can blame it. So, CoD and LoS are left... CoD was a few steps forward and twice as many steps backward from LoI, which doesn't bode well for it. But LoS was supposed to be the relaunch and big solution to 3D Castlevania, but rather than trying to be more in the vein of CV64/LoD, which had a lot of things working for them, it brought in several of the pitfalls of LoI/CoD and just made them seem more fancy in presentation while doing random, inconsequential name drops of Castlevania lore. On the other hand, LoS in of itself is not a terrible game when compared to everything else out there. But, if we change "least enjoy" to "most disappointing," LoS is kind of the winner by analysis. CoD was a disappointment for sure, but the fact that LoS could only get around LoI level when all is said and done is kind of sad. Still, I'll hold off my vote and think it through some more. Basically, I find the least faults with CV64/LoD, and every 3D game after those was enjoyable in their own ways the first time through, but none of them hold up or really clearly made the case for best 3D Castlevania.

*Those N64 games had a lot of positive/innovative features that served up CV in 3D:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Neobelmont on August 31, 2011, 05:53:11 AM
*Those N64 games had a lot of positive/innovative features that served up CV in 3D:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)




CV 64/LoD was THE 3D CV that sadly could have been but was not in the end Konami just fell over and over again but it feels like LoS is going somewhat in a right direction(even if some people do not like it).
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on August 31, 2011, 05:57:10 AM


CV 64/LoD was THE 3D CV that sadly could have been but was not in the end Konami just fell over and over again but it feels like LoS is going somewhat in a right direction(even if some people do not like it).

Los2 should have the puzzle and platforming of Cv64 and Keep Everything else, it would be perfect then!
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: The Silverlord on August 31, 2011, 12:52:51 PM
Apparently, Lords of Shadow failed to top CV64/LoD and LoI.

Not bad at all!  I mean, it isn't strictly/technically/aesthetically a Castlevania game, so to be where it is isn’t too bad.  I mean, it could quite easily have been omitted from this poll in the first place / isn’t really worthy against any other 3D Castlevania game.

Ahem.  I vote Lament of Innocence!  I'm nostalgic when it comes to Castlevania N64 cos it had bags of mood so I can't vote for it (haven't played Judge/Curse).  Although, all the credit in the world to Yamane for one of the greatest soundtracks in gaming history.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: GuyStarwind on August 31, 2011, 07:58:36 PM
To be honest I thought the 64 games were going to get more hate. I'm glad they're not though. IMO they're some of the most Castlelyvania games out there.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: uzo on September 01, 2011, 12:09:56 AM
Maybe it was so bad that it didn't make uzo's list. It could be just below the [WORST] section I wager.

Hahaha. Seriously though;

I didn't include it because it's really apples and oranges. Just for the sake of argument though, if Judgement had a mode like LoI/CoD where you explored areas and combated enemy monsters, it would have ranked higher than both LoI and CoD I think. Just based on pure fighting mechanics, Judgement really stands above LoI and CoD both. It still has shit designs though. I could almost kick it below CoD for having shitty designs.

But alas, it is not in the list because I feel there is no way to properly compare it to the other games, being it isn't quite in the same genre.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 02, 2011, 04:42:27 AM
Los2 should have the puzzle and platforming of Cv64 and Keep Everything else, it would be perfect then!

Music as well and I really like the music, but it is that they teased just us a bit at points just hear this it should have been in LoS


Deforestation - Super Castlevania IV 'Forest of Monsters' cover by Thunder Thouin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVoBQn0oYYo#)   Freaking incredible. If all of this is met I have a bit of faith that THE CV could be made it is just taking small steps.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on September 02, 2011, 05:25:14 AM
Music as well and I really like the music, but it is that they teased just us a bit at points just hear this it should have been in LoS


Deforestation - Super Castlevania IV 'Forest of Monsters' cover by Thunder Thouin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVoBQn0oYYo#)   Freaking incredible. If all of this is met I have a bit of faith that THE CV could be made it is just taking small steps.
that is AMAZING! that's what LoS should have done, have the epic yet familiar sound
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on September 02, 2011, 05:51:14 AM
I dunno... it's an interesting take, but I'd take a more atmospheric feel over an epic feel.

Something tells me Forest of Monsters would make an amazing chill house song.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Ahasverus on September 03, 2011, 04:10:07 AM
Music as well and I really like the music, but it is that they teased just us a bit at points just hear this it should have been in LoS


Deforestation - Super Castlevania IV 'Forest of Monsters' cover by Thunder Thouin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVoBQn0oYYo#)   Freaking incredible. If all of this is met I have a bit of faith that THE CV could be made it is just taking small steps.
So.. perfect?  :o
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Gambit Belmont on September 03, 2011, 06:31:15 PM
CV64 or CoD.  Not sure.  But I casted 64 in the vote since I haven't played Curse.  Although Curse has an awesome soundtrack :D
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on September 03, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
It's kind of stunning how awful that Forest of Monsters remix is, all wrapped in delusions of self-importance and empty notions of 'epic' by means of tepid orchestra. Truly a perfect match for Lords.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on September 03, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
It's kind of stunning how awful that Forest of Monsters remix is, all wrapped in delusions of self-importance and empty notions of 'epic' by means of tepid orchestra. Truly a perfect match for Lords.

Just because its orchestrated an changes tempo with an atmospheric tone makes it awful?
Wow, you must have a shitty taste in music.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on September 04, 2011, 08:52:47 AM
Thanks!

Note I called the orchestra here tepid, the implication being that I have nothing against such an approach when it's done well. Here it's just like Lords, overbearing and loud, trying to generate a feeling of progression by a continuous string and violin movement. I find it cliché and lacking, devoid of atmosphere unlike the source material, which offered room to breathe and was more subtle in its manipulations.

It's possibly a cut above most of the things in Lords, but as admitted, definitely carved from the same tree, and thus very distasteful to my shitty music tastes.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on September 04, 2011, 09:29:11 AM
Thanks!

Note I called the orchestra here tepid, the implication being that I have nothing against such an approach when it's done well. Here it's just like Lords, overbearing and loud, trying to generate a feeling of progression by a continuous string and violin movement. I find it cliché and lacking, devoid of atmosphere unlike the source material, which offered room to breathe and was more subtle in its manipulations.

It's possibly a cut above most of the things in Lords, but as admitted, definitely carved from the same tree, and thus very distasteful to my shitty music tastes.

I'm sorry, Its not your music taste, Its just you have a grundge ahainst LoS and anything that resembles it remotely.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on September 04, 2011, 11:02:09 AM
I don't like Lords, but what of it? That remix was brought up as something that should've been heard in the game, and this topic is about the negative aspects of Castlevania's 3D installments, Lords among them. It's only natural I'd comment on a song tailored to be akin to Araujo's compositions, which I'm no fan of in the least. And in the end that is what the topic is about: talking about things we don't enjoy. Grumble.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Mystic Myotis on September 07, 2011, 05:00:35 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the Curse of Darkness hate, but whatever.  I enjoyed it despite its flaws.

Castlevania: Judgment is the clear winner for me.  I haven't played the 64 games so I can't comment on them.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Vampire Killer on September 07, 2011, 06:17:18 AM
Lords. Every 3D installment in this series has its share of mechanical problems, so it comes down to the aesthetic and the like. Lords' is one of the least engaging art directions I've ever seen in a video game. It's so joyless in its tiresome exposition, too, like the developers really believed they'd crafted something of worth and didn't want humour to distract from it. Except when it invokes mindbogglingly asinine Internet meme references for comic relief, I suppose. The tone of the game is all fucked, is what I'm saying. It does practically nothing well, aside from pumping out some high-poly vistas often enough.

Aaaaaaand....it's opinions like this that make me glad that Konami stopped listening to the "fanbase".

Am i the only one here who is starting to wonder if Puwexil is just a troll? Dude seems to simply hate on everything.  Seriously Puwexil, go take some prozac or get a blowjob or something.



In other news, CoD for me is hands down the worst 3D Cv. Good gravy that game was awful is almost every respect. It's only saving grace was Trevor and some of the music.

Compared to CoD, LoI is fairly good. Heck, even LoD beats CoD.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Munchy on September 07, 2011, 07:48:35 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the Curse of Darkness hate, but whatever.  I enjoyed it despite its flaws.

Castlevania: Judgment is the clear winner for me.  I haven't played the 64 games so I can't comment on them.

I did have some fun with the Innocent Devils and the weapon creation stuff. The endless hallways that seem to mock Hector with his pathetic jogging speed were too much, though.

I'd love a "rom hack" of that game that just gives the rooms more vertical depth.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on September 07, 2011, 03:00:24 PM
Am i the only one here who is starting to wonder if Puwexil is just a troll? Dude seems to simply hate on everything.  Seriously Puwexil, go take some prozac or get a blowjob or something.

What's wrong with due criticism? Can't handle the heat? And I'm sorry, but me procuring medication or sexual favours isn't going to make this franchise look any better than it has for many years now. Which is, an embarrassment to itself, its history and its peers. So in hopes of Castlevania bettering itself, I'm going to keep pointing out every single hideous flaw and misguided design decision, whilst championing the aspects that are, you know, good. Too bad the latter sort is in short supply these days.

Let's just hate in peace.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 07, 2011, 03:05:43 PM
The problem is, what YOU think is 'good' is not necessarily factual, but rather your opinion of it.
Which translates to "I'm going to be a dick because my opinion is better than yours, and I'm going to ridicule and insult everyone who disagrees with my bile statements for the lolz".

So yeah, you may not be trolling, but you're flame-baiting.  And when you're called out on it, you respond with statements like the ones above.

Kindly find a better way to convey your opinions, without belittling those of others.

@Vampire Killer:  Please do not ask for people to get sexual favors as a way of attacking them.  Have some respect for your own post and for the posts of others, even if I generally agree with your sentiment regarding Puwexil.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Puwexil on September 07, 2011, 03:35:51 PM
I have neither belittled nor insulted absolutely nobody. What I've done in this topic is talk about the worst aspects of a game I find to be the lowest example of its ilk, which is the point of this thread. Then I talked about a piece of music in relation to said game, and oops, here come the personal attacks. Not that I care about the crass remarks of others, at least until it's somehow turned against me, like here.

Also thank you kindly, but I'm not going to stamp a big fat IMO in front of everything I write when it's dead-obvious my opinions are my opinions.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Nagumo on September 07, 2011, 03:57:14 PM
The only one who is being a dick is Vampire Killer.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: SenileSnake on September 07, 2011, 04:00:20 PM
IF I MAY SAY SOMETHING

i may seem kind of biased because puw and i are like big bros, but as far as i can tell his assessment is very sober and the only thing "wrong" with it is that it doesn't seem to reflect the general opinion of the thread. and yes, IMO shouldn't be necessary, nothing he says be taken as neither fact nor attacks, least of all "personal attacks". here comes a big shocker, lords of shadow is not a real person. neither is it anything worth being petty and defensive about. if anyone can make a post as laconic as  puwexil in favor of lords, i will gladly read it. or maybe i should also get a blowjob. thank you, dungeon. i mean i don't really like hanging out here but sometimes you just crack me up.

no, maybe lords isn't the biggest 3d fail... maybe you are the biggest 3d fails, vampire killer and jorge...
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: crisis on September 07, 2011, 04:13:26 PM
Come on now, we're all friends here. I enjoy reading puwe y senile's posts (sometimes naggermo's lol). Makes me feel all... sticky o__o
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Vampire Killer on September 07, 2011, 05:02:12 PM
@Vampire Killer:  Please do not ask for people to get sexual favors as a way of attacking them.  Have some respect for your own post and for the posts of others, even if I generally agree with your sentiment regarding Puwexil.

True, twas a bit crass. Sorry.

The below is meant to be taken humorously....

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Vampire Killer on September 07, 2011, 05:03:16 PM
The only one who is being a dick is Vampire Killer.

That's just ur opinion  ;)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Nagumo on September 07, 2011, 05:16:25 PM
oh don't even

Seriously, though. You can't handle that some fans don't think the same way about Lords as you do.   
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 07, 2011, 09:06:08 PM
I have neither belittled nor insulted absolutely nobody. What I've done in this topic is talk about the worst aspects of a game I find to be the lowest example of its ilk, which is the point of this thread. Then I talked about a piece of music in relation to said game, and oops, here come the personal attacks. Not that I care about the crass remarks of others, at least until it's somehow turned against me, like here.

Also thank you kindly, but I'm not going to stamp a big fat IMO in front of everything I write when it's dead-obvious my opinions are my opinions.

You do not have to, but you must realize that you're opinion does not carry any more weight than anyone else's.  You also do not have to write that every time as that.  Great example is how you just said "a game I find" rather than the other hyperbolic statements such as "This IS like this".  And no, it's not always understood/obvious that something is your opinion.  Sometimes things that are factual are written as such, and when not everyone can understand one another, mishaps such as what just happened on the page prior, will happen.

So, for the sake of forum peace, be clear about the things you say, and watch the tone in which you say them.  Without a facial expression to go with them, all we can do is read between the lines, and when not everything is written on the page, not everything will be understood as how it came out of your head, but rather as how it's perceived afterwards.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Mortificator on September 07, 2011, 10:13:55 PM
And yet it's a fact that not all video games are of equal quality. It's fine if a person likes, say, Legends better than Castlevania, but Castlevania is objectively the superior game in pretty much every area. In that vein, a well-reasoned analysis does carry more weight than Beavis & Butthead-style nonsense.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 07, 2011, 10:49:04 PM
I can generally agree with that statement, but there are qualities of games (as there are in all art) which are so subjective, that they cannot be quantified.  There's also the matter of personal tastes, which extend into game graphics and music, such as the musical example from a page back (Deforestation, I believe it was).

As such, saying something as vacuous as "This is better than this", at times, is not a fact but rather a personal opinion, no matter how loud and bombastic your post about it may be.  There's nothing wrong, nor does it waste a lot of time, to say "I find this better than this" or "I think I'm more fond of this" rather than "This is absolute shit in comparison to this clearly superior thing".

It's really the presentation.
One makes you come off as a practical sensible member of the forum, and the other one will make you come off as an ass.
Also, one of those will get you banned eventually.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: DoctaMario on September 08, 2011, 02:03:44 AM
Guysguysguys....Puweyxil's Scandinavian. It's that gruff Viking-like personality that endears him to and makes him a valued part of the CV community!  ;D  Honestly, he and I have disagreed about a lot of things, but no matter, his posts are all pretty well written and thought out. Cut him a bit of slack.

I do agree with him about that Forest Of Monsters remix though. They basically took out most of the good things about the piece. The melody was buried in the mix, the cool tension-building chord changes were substituted for more bland choices, and wtf was up with the female singer. No thank you sir, I'll take the SCVIV version please. I did like the tempo change at 2:27 though, how they brought in that little bit from the end credits.

The first version of the 64 game (Castlevania) was an incomplete mess, but the improved re-release (Legacy of Darkness) was pretty good.

I have always preferred CV64's level designs over LoD's. If they'd ported over the CV64 designs and had the characters and story modes from LoD, that would have been a hell of a game. I still think the 64 games are among the best CV games myself. THey truly are 2D Castlevania with a Z axis.

On topic, I picked Curse Of Darkness. It's a game I've owned for umpteen years but have only finished once despite picking it up and trying again at least 3 or 4 other times. I've just never been bored enough to want to finish it. They just didn't put enough time into the more important stuff in that and LoI. When you're in the basement of the House of Remains in LoI, you should be able to walk up to the coffins in some of the rooms, hit a button and it should tell you who the body inside was. How hard would something like that have been? Both games are good examples of commerce ruining potentially good art.

Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Vampire Killer on September 08, 2011, 04:29:54 AM
oh don't even

Seriously, though. You can't handle that some fans don't think the same way about Lords as you do.


*NOTE* I've decided to remove my little rant. Basically because I honestly don't care, and would rather keep the peace. Life is too short. If you wanna go bust out a full-on keg of Hatoraide on LoS, be my guest. I feel saying the game is utter crap is a tad much, but that's just me.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on September 08, 2011, 04:55:56 AM
Dracula Apocalypse (64\LoD, the original name is too boss)
Good games, 64 has a few critical issues to it that were fixed with LoD, overall not bad as there is a sense of danger and thrills along the journey.
The story is self contained and there are enough characters to rub off of each other, in LoD you could feel the urgency Cornell felt to save Ada.

Lament of Innocence
as a Game, not bad. As a story it is a huge fail, Establishing the Belmonts is okay but establishing an already established Dracula with a stupid ass Conflict per-determined plot IGA loves to do just ruined the game Story-wise, Game-wise Its pretty Flat, Useless Relics (other than wolf's foot), and minimum platforming, Its just enough not to bore you.

Curse of Darkness
The game is overall flat, boring, and the only reason you're not doing anything else but play this game is the gimmicky Weapon Forging and the Innocent Devils.
Story is uneeded and the Premises is non-logical since Dracula has summoned all his own minions in every game except this one.
Only redeeming Factor is the Appearance of Trevor and the ability to play as Trevor.
Action Replay Run clocked this game at 15 mins, Without the weapon making its BORING.

Judgement
Unlike Curse of Darkness, this game has an interesting Premises, but is slaughtered by characters not acting nor resembling the characters they are supposed to be.
As a Game the mechanics are broken and is very quick to frustrate as the AI takes advantage of the Flawed mechanics and turn the battle one-sided.
As a fighting game its pretty balanced but , yet agian, the mechanics are broken so balance is not an issue.

Lords of Shadow
Not the Reboot most fans wanted, but its suffer from Shadow of the Collosis copy/pasting and some lame Platforming.
Story-wise the game is pretty good, but the story-telling could be way better.
It is Niether Frustrating nor Boring, nor does it conflict with its own Mythos.

Dark Priests
They are Evil, they prey on they weak with a smile, fooling you that they are good.
They Violate your mind and poof, you'll never go to church again, why?
He is there when he is not, watching you with his glazed eyes.....
At least that is what the crazies tell me.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Nagumo on September 08, 2011, 06:15:31 AM
While I admit that I'm the type that doesn't think that all opinions are equally valid (that's just my opinion), I ultimately don't care if someone doesn't care for LoS.  What I do find a tad annoying is what I like to call EPIC-HATE.

Seems to me you're just blowing this out of proportions just to make your point stand.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: The Silverlord on September 08, 2011, 07:48:41 AM
Seems to me you're just blowing

just blowing

blowing


I see what you did there.

Edit for some OT: Puwexil was very eloquent and gave reason/justification, even if it did raise an eyebrow.  But, got to respect opinions.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Sumac on September 08, 2011, 04:04:33 PM
Quote
While I admit that I'm the type that doesn't think that all opinions are equally valid (that's just my opinion), I ultimately don't care if someone doesn't care for LoS.  What I do find a tad annoying is what I like to call EPIC-HATE.
Agree with you.
I am OK with people that dislike LOS, but like you, I am not OK with constant (and sometimes overblown) hatred that this game (or any other) receive. Reeks of fanboish and dillusioned approach, that I've seen so much in regards to the other franchises.

And it seems after Chapel's demise some people from there decided to go here. I hope this place will not turn into Chapel 2.0.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 08, 2011, 05:01:02 PM
If people misbehave, I will have them banned, simple as that.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Successor The Cruel on September 08, 2011, 05:02:31 PM
And it seems after Chapel's demise some people from there decided to go here. I hope this place will not turn into Chapel 2.0.

That's been my secret plan this entire time. A clandestine upheaval.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: KaZudra on September 08, 2011, 05:10:18 PM
If people misbehave, I will have them Spanked, simple as that.

XD, I can't resist these humorous urges sometimes.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: thernz on September 08, 2011, 06:11:01 PM
I think there are two main misconceptions on how a 3D vania should be like: shimmying and combos.
Shimmying itself is really just a dull mechanic most of the time. If it's in something, it should be short. It damages pacing, especially in regards to LoS's "fast" combat. It's not a really good substitute for cool down periods. Castlevania has never been an adherent of "naturalistic" platforming either. Probably too much hassle than good for it, especially when creating level design that intermingles both platforming and combat.
Then with combos, its style of combat encourages flat arenas and with combos, come more health in enemies, so the player stays in the same general area. I think that dampens the flow aspect of Castlevania as you move your Belmont, leaping and whipping shit while still going forward. Even in an exploration title like SoTN, most of the time you were moving and grooving.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 08, 2011, 08:26:01 PM
Curse of Darkness was the worse given the flat level design and poor story concept.

Level Design:

Story Concept:

CV64 and LoD had great level design.  The only problem were the graphics, but those were the best at the time.  They had the traditional simple storyline (make your way to the castle keep and kill Dracula), but that's what was good about the old games.  LoS had great level design, but was CV enough and I don't really like the concept of a Belmont becoming Dracula.  Plus, the battle system was arena based (does suit CV). 
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Flame on September 09, 2011, 01:49:45 AM
Then with combos, its style of combat encourages flat arenas and with combos, come more health in enemies, so the player stays in the same general area. I think that dampens the flow aspect of Castlevania as you move your Belmont, leaping and whipping shit while still going forward. Even in an exploration title like SoTN, most of the time you were moving and grooving.
but combos are more fun. compare LoS whipping with CV64's.  LoS is far more satisfying. LoI had combos too, but they were minimal. nothing as dynamic as LoS. Though they were still somewhat satisfying.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 09, 2011, 05:10:15 AM
but combos are more fun. compare LoS whipping with CV64's.  LoS is far more satisfying. LoI had combos too, but they were minimal. nothing as dynamic as LoS. Though they were still somewhat satisfying.




Castlevania Lords of Shadow Combo Video "Workshed" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLU7OLrWZEY#ws)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: thernz on September 09, 2011, 04:42:45 PM
Well, CV64's combat system was dull in general. You don't necessarily need combos for good combat. It's just one way to do it. Imagine how unfitting combos would be in a game like Demon's Souls.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: RichterB on September 09, 2011, 05:48:31 PM

Castlevania Lords of Shadow Combo Video "Workshed" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLU7OLrWZEY#ws)
but combos are more fun. compare LoS whipping with CV64's.  LoS is far more satisfying. LoI had combos too, but they were minimal. nothing as dynamic as LoS. Though they were still somewhat satisfying.

[Shakes head back and forth]

Great, turn enemies into punching bags while you pretend to be Superman. Combos are "cool" but also highly overrated and dangerous to game design. In this context, they're "satisfying" in the same way that junk food is. Combos of this extent are a "genre piece" tailor made for things like Devil May Cry, and do little to help "Castlevania's" game design. The simple combat of CV64 provides for natural combos: With Reinhardt, if you want/are able, you whip a skeleton, go into a slide tackle, and come up with a short-ranged blade swipe. (Or, jump in, whip, and then hit with the holy water or sub-weapon of choice). It's not pre-programmed "juggling." Most importantly, it means most enemies take less hits, which in turn makes for scenarios like Level 2 of CV64 where you have to platform-jump while dealing with medusa heads, bats, bone pillars (and their projectiles), as well as crumbling/flipping platforms and falling guillotines.

Meanwhile, heavy combo-centric combat doesn't naturally engender the gameplay rhythm necessary to dodge structural obstacles AND fight the enemies. In fact, combos emphasize the "fight action," resulting in more arena-type, beat'em-up scenarios, and less strategic enemy placement (bone-throwers on broken bridges) and free-form pursuing enemies (like the Forest of Silence's running skeletons). The former scenario is also where sub-weapons come most in handy, yet if the scenario is lacking, the sub-weapons again dip in their strategic importance. As a result, the sections of action and platforming become utterly stratified and separated in LoS, which isn't the Castlevania norm. (This can't be fixed without changing the gameplay for starters, because Gabriel's jump is atrocious to control, and his whipping more or less immediately moves the character toward a pre-set combo in its animation).

Going on, the way Gabriel "slices" with his "whip" doesn't always feel like you're making solid contact with the enemies, as there is no resistance or recoil. (Nevermind the fact that he "jumps" about as well as Nathan Drake). There's just not the sense of differentiation and atmospheric terror/tension when you're "grinding" on enemies with superpowers in flat arenas. LoS' combat, for all its "coolness," cripples Castlevania's game design and forces it toward the modern cliches of DMC and GoW (and doesn't even mix it up as solidly as the latter, not that I think it should be GoW to begin with). And it ruins the pick-up-and-replay value of LoS, too, as you have to recall the pre-programmed combo button presses when you go back to try out a level months after you've beaten it.  (And unfortunately, I've found that there isn't much worth replaying, as a lot of it feels on rails--many invisible walls in the wrong places and lots of enemy grinding padding levels. Despite having more variety than CoD or LoI, it's not all that much different from those entries in design theory when you strip it down). I agree with Thernz on this combo business, and also the "shimmying." In CV64 you could do that and it meant something--surviving by the skin of your teeth. Here it's just pre-programmed Uncharted or SotC shtick. And for Pete's sake, can we get a 3D camera for use in real 3D levels, not  100% forced camera for levels that, while pretty, come off as pre-rendered set pieces. I give LoS an "A" for effort, but its gameplay, by looking at GoW and SotC as models, is fundamentally flawed in terms of Castlevania's action-platforming. CV64 is a far better building block/starting point for CV in 3D.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: A-Yty on September 09, 2011, 05:54:13 PM
I believe I wholeheartedly agree with the post above (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifsforum.com%2Fimages%2Fgif%2Fapproval%2Fgrand%2F26861381_nodding_gif.gif&hash=11e1334ce8c2e05a7cd6d4257d0d1acd7530f972)

A combat system taken from other series to which it better suits, feels very redundant and distracting when slapped to CV. Combos didn't ring well in LoI (though somehow I sometimes enjoyed it. I don't know why - maybe it was the feeling of using a whip instead of chain), so I didn't much enjoy it in LoS either.
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 09, 2011, 07:14:53 PM
Well I learned something new,but I like combos that you can play around with and come up with a style also I do not understand  how the flatness of an area affects a combo system.

But by the sound of it seems like something along the lines of onimusha(no jumping) or maximo where yeah the attacks are not as combo crazy but you will be able to multitask which makes sense see as how castlevania had you doing both.

Yes LoS combo system is great but yes in the sense of action-platforming that you were explaining it gets a C+ it is not that it is bad but more of not being fluid it just seems to me that Maximo would be like what your describing.


Kind of like this right?


Let's Play Maximo: Ghosts To Glory Part 13-Platforming Extravaganza! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN-geRT-4Fw#ws)
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: RichterB on September 10, 2011, 04:28:47 AM
Well I learned something new,but I like combos that you can play around with and come up with a style also I do not understand  how the flatness of an area affects a combo system.

But by the sound of it seems like something along the lines of onimusha(no jumping) or maximo where yeah the attacks are not as combo crazy but you will be able to multitask which makes sense see as how castlevania had you doing both.

Yes LoS combo system is great but yes in the sense of action-platforming that you were explaining it gets a C+ it is not that it is bad but more of not being fluid it just seems to me that Maximo would be like what your describing.


Kind of like this right?


Let's Play Maximo: Ghosts To Glory Part 13-Platforming Extravaganza! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN-geRT-4Fw#ws)

Bingo! The video, with Maximo, is definitely what I'm getting at: 3D camera, dynamic level design that utilizes said camera, and multitasking of combat and platforming without excessive, pre-programmed showboating and juggling.  (I don't know if LoS, as is with its controls and camera, can duplicate the sort of experience Maximo had there in that vid--especially as seamlessly/smoothly. The problem seems to be that a lot of modern developers think that kind of design is "old-school/8-bit"...but it works just in the same way that Mario 64 worked as an update of Super Mario Bros, hitting the core of what Castlevania is at its gameplay heart).

While we're on the same page for a moment, let me suggest something else I'd like to see improved from LoS. The swing-platforming. It needs to be freed up and more about timing and physics than just on-rails events. This may be taking it a bit far, but check out this Bionic Commando video, which frees up the controls and the camera for some fun and amazing gameplay: Bionic Commando - Swinging Gameplay (HQ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoQzwnDoOo#ws) (Even SCV-IV on the SNES had more physics and tension to its whip/swing-platforming than LoS--though LoS' "repelling" aspect was a cool addition).

Also, with both of these, and Maximo in particular, that's why I said CV64 had the right building blocks in its combat/platforming system and level design. Check out the video of CV64 I will link here in a moment, and pay special attention to 0:17-2:10 for cleverly-crafted, tense action-platforming that is as "Castlevania" as Dracula's fangs (and missing from LoS). And then, check out 3:56-5:15 to see what I meant about not needing intense combos or closed-off, flat arenas to engender combat, as this allows the level to develop naturally and for the player to tackle the situation how they see fit, moving where they want to naturally as a part of the level design itself, as opposed to being stuck in a set piece with forced invisible walls where you need to clear enemies or wait for a certain amount of enemy animations to happen (like the giant Ogre section in LoS' fortress). Castlevania 64 Reinhardt Walkthrough Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwPxpccNQco#ws) (There is a flow and calculation to the gameplay that goes back to that Level 2 section everyone points out in CV1 NES as iconic, where you had the medusa heads AND the axe knight, and had to plot out how to overcome multiple obstacles at once while fighting. The answer isn't as simple as use X-combo x-amount of times and overpower my enemies; it's more about surviving).

The CV64 attacks could be embellished a little if need be (maybe a weaker, ranged 360 whip-spin over the head like Gabriel for when you're surrounded), but LoS went in a completely different direction not so far from LoI and CoD when it comes to combat and usage of environment and enemies. At the end of the day, that format is less of a game and more of an interactive movie. And CV64, when it needed to slow down the action-platforming, didn't go for set piece titan battles ala SotC or forced shimmying in the vein of Uncharted; rather, it decided to go into atmospheric exploration, where you were still threatened (as in the Villa/Garden section), meshing with the traditions of in-universe games like Simon's Quest and SotN while maintaining its own distinct personality. (Even if one argues it took a page from Resident Evil 1).
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: Kale on September 10, 2011, 05:04:00 AM
I love combos. I love Ninja Gaiden. I do like DMC, but I hate how so many enemies are punching bags. It's only the ones that have a realistic threat that made the game good.

I like the idea that LoS had combos and some of those bosses and enemies were good. The were wolves were good, the Dark Knight was good. But it had so many things that annoyed the living shit out of me. The highest on the list would probably be QT FUCKING E!
Title: Re: The biggest 3D FAIL.
Post by: X on September 10, 2011, 06:58:44 AM
The only thing that really bothered me with LoS combat was it took forever to kill even just the basic enemies. Even GoW wasn't THAT bad for combat.