Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[Nagumo]

you guys are cool

look at me i try to troll~ 

[Dark Nemesis]

OoE was heading in the right direction, but still it was having it's flaws. I believe time is the key. While Cox was having plenty of time, Iga was never had that time luxury. I would love to see at least a last try on 2D Castlevania and what would have been next in store......but i guess, we will never find out that.......

[Sumac]

A-Yty is a very calm and focussed Dracula, at times mocking, barely suppressed his laughter.

Continuing the analogy - like Dracula he is overzealous and blind to the reasoning and logic, stubbornly following his dream. Oh, and if he is a Dracula he is doomed to fail. 
So your your attempt at being good at analogies is a quite a success..or a failure (depending who's side you are, if at all).

The hordes are moving in for our dear Belmont

More like a few red skeletons. Annoyance at best, but never a threat to be taken seriously.

Castlevania bestiary is based on mythological creatures and not fantasy creatures, ripped straight from J. R. R. Tolkien universe!!!

I don't see what the difference between taking some monsters from one mythology or the other. You said yourself that Castlevania games featured monsters from different mythlogies. What is so disastrous about using monsters from different source for one single game?

Aria is accepted as the best Castlevania, after Symphony world wide. Yes it has fantasy elements, but they are few. It has more classic elements than fantasy, so it doesn't take off away from the old series, when LoS does the opposite!!!

Amendment: it had more anime elements, than fantasy-ones that looked very out of place in the Castlevania setting.

I fail to see how this is the case there was no Satan in the original formula, no tragic descent into darkness, evil never triumphed in the end. LOS couldn't be any further from the original formula.

Gee...
I talked about gameplay, not story.

lack of medusa heads, bone pillars etc. and make a simple, effective counter-argument that it is neither Classicvania or Metroidvania.

I don't see how lack of some enemies make the game "less Castlevania". As far as I remember some of the classic CV enemies weren't in some games, but no one says that there are not Castlevania because of it.

However it turns out, Lords of Shadow has made an impression on the series and will not be forgotten.

More like impression on the fans of the series so far. How it influence the series (if at all) we would see in the future.

but i don't accept him to say that Aria isn't, when it was the first Castlevania to continue succesfully the Symphony formoula with new game play mechanics and darker mood.

In the gameplay department AOS and DOS were very good. AOS is one of my favorite Castlevania gameplay-wise. However it's story is out of place in the series and generally cliche-filled anime rip-off. And I don't see how it had "dark mood". Though this could have been ruined by the story for me.
DOS was very good gameplay-wise, but boring design and even MORE insane story killed it's value as Castlevania for me.

Iga was never had that time luxury.

He had enough time and games to see what was wrong with the past games to rectify it. Considering that they reused engines and sprites from the past games, bulding actually competent Castlevania gameplay-wise couldn't be Mission: Impossible.

[crisis]

Why are you guys still even feeding into this nonsense? This guy is stubborn, no one here shares his opinion, so he's gonna continue to bicker and/or flamebait us "old close minded fans." He's more worried about proving his "point" than having an actual discussion. This debate is getting old, agree to disagree and fucking drop it already.


Anyway.. *in an attempt to make this thread normal again*
If the LoS timeline will only be a trilogy as speculated, how would they cover 1000 years? Will the second game take place hundreds of years later? I'm thinking the prologue will show Gabriel/Dracula soon after what happened in the conclusion to Resurrection, as he or his minions attack a village or something. We'll be playing as him through this part but once it finishes, the game will cut to about a century later, so we take on a new protagonist. I don't know why I think this'll happen but that's just my hunch. (kinda like how in The Force Unleashed you start off as Vader owning everything lol)

Any ideas?

[Kingshango]

Anyway.. *in an attempt to make this thread normal again*
If the LoS timeline will only be a trilogy as speculated, how would they cover 1000 years? Will the second game take place hundreds of years later? I'm thinking the prologue will show Gabriel/Dracula soon after what happened in the conclusion to Resurrection, as he or his minions attack a village or something. We'll be playing as him through this part but once it finishes, the game will cut to about a century later, so we take on a new protagonist. I don't know why I think this'll happen but that's just my hunch.

Any ideas?

Finally a good segway into another theory I had regarding where the sequel can go, here it goes:

I think the sequel could go the Assasins Creed route and have the game primarilly take place in the present but will occasonially go back into the past during Gabriel/Dracula's reign of power via playable flashbacks.

It could start's off with Gabriel/Dracula forming his own order in opposition to the Brotherhood and anyone who serves God(calling it the Order of the Dragon would make total sense in this regard, plus his hideout had dragon statues everywhere) and wiping them out but he doesn't harm innocent human's untill something really pisses him off(I think I got an idea of what that event was ) and goes into "kill em all" mode.

[Dark Nemesis]

From today on, i have another member here to love, along with some others!!! That person is Crisis!!! I really like the way he speaks!!! Anyway, back to the topic.

I don't see what the difference between taking some monsters from one mythology or the other. You said yourself that Castlevania games featured monsters from different mythlogies. What is so disastrous about using monsters from different source for one single game?

You see, castlevania is about monsters born of evil and demons. It's past castlevania game, was having that kind of enemies, with a handful exceptions. What Cox did with most of the enemies he chose to use, was like taking the Norse mythology gods and put them in god of war. I don't think that that would work.

@Amendment: it had more anime elements, than fantasy-ones that looked very out of place in the Castlevania setting.

Again, i failed to see that. Soma on aria, wasn't that kind of cute anime, but a more serious design. Also the levels design was darker than the previous GBA titles. If you want to speak about anime, these are PoR and DoS. Not Aria!!!

@I don't see how lack of some enemies make the game "less Castlevania". As far as I remember some of the classic CV enemies weren't in some games, but no one says that there are not Castlevania because of it.

As far i can remember, i can't remember an old castlevania game without at least one of the trade mark enemies, like medusa heads, bone pillars etc.

@In the gameplay department AOS and DOS were very good. AOS is one of my favorite Castlevania gameplay-wise. However it's story is out of place in the series and generally cliche-filled anime rip-off. And I don't see how it had "dark mood". Though this could have been ruined by the story for me.
DOS was very good gameplay-wise, but boring design and even MORE insane story killed it's value as Castlevania for me.

If a story is out of place, that one is LoS. A Belmont turn to Dracula? Seriously, WTF? It's like making god satan. Aria's story, it's not out of place, it's the future and i don't see how it is anime rip-off. I haven't seen anything anime inside the game or are you telling that, because it takes place in Japan? Seriously, it was the first story to like, after Symphony. It's stages designs are gloomy and more darker than the previous ones and it was featuring many new enemies designs, bosses and stages. Dos is a different story....

@He had enough time and games to see what was wrong with the past games to rectify it. Considering that they reused engines and sprites from the past games, bulding actually competent Castlevania gameplay-wise couldn't be Mission: Impossible.

Yes, he had enough time to think, but not to execute his ideas. When you are working under preasure to finish as fast as you can the game you are making, with a few resourses, then the fastest way is the copy paste pasta. I don't remember Cox having a time preasure to finish his game or a smal amount of funds.

Now about the trilogy thing, Lord of The Rings anyone?

[Flame]

I swear to God if one more person makes a LoS Lord of the Rings comparison...

[A-Yty]

I'm happy our exchange of words invokes the feeling of a good ole Castlevania scenario



..because Konami's recent actions sure as hell aren't doing that Comic Rimshot!

But I kind of wanna be a Humper instead of Dracula. Or perhaps a curry-throwing skeleton. Make sure you cast Sumac as Gabriel Belmont specifically. Crisis might wanna be..Slogra!

But to get back to the sandbox..PUH-FRIGGIN-LEEZE, Sumac. Should've simply said you were trolling. Because you've got to be incredibly full of yourself to say you're "right" with a poker face while you keep ripping on other fans and elevate your own fandom to the stars. And you obviously will keep doing that as long as someone reacts to it. I feel some sort of sympathy towards your misplaced zeal, because the marketing machine you speak of as if it were an unrelenting god doesn't reward you for your efforts and fellow fans understandably don't appreciate your steamrolling attitude.

This isn't an argument. This is you mechanically bouncing back everything that does not register as the opinion that LoS is the only right way to bring Castlevania back. When I stop answering to you (which will be really soon because what Crisis said is absolutely true), it won't be because you have proven whatever your point is. It will be because I will have grown bored of talking to a virtual brick wall.

It hasn't been a  a very auspicious beginning for this Castlevania Future Champion even if you disregard the game's lack of Castlevanianess. There was the confusion about the game's status as a Castlevania game when it was first announced and the resulting explonations that still feel a little off (granted, that might all be the blunder of the big bosses). The bait and switching. The producer openly admitting this game is about just snippets of the original series' DNA. The cringeworthy references to modern games. Hideo Kojima's eyeroll-inducing MGS puffing (this is the very last series that needs extra exposure, especially in another Konami game). The hollow namedropping. Praising Shadow of the Colossus as an inspiration while in the same interview not even bothering to do the same to the series you're making a game for. The game's director showing up in  this forum and being.. how to put this delicately.. a little antsy when answering to fans.

You don't owe them anything. If their thing is gonna succeed financially, it won't be due to your or any other "civilian's" efforts to defend it. You yourself keep saying how money talks and that's it. LoS 2 might step up or it might be a failure. Either way, if it doesn't inject itself with more Castlevania, the process is going to repeat itself. And if all of Konami's Castlevania eggs will be in the same basket, they'll eventually be left with very, very fickle customer demographics (yes - even fickler than the fanbase you say is difficult to please).

You can be Team LoS's most tenacious supporter all you want, but don't be going all martyr when other fans call it bullshit when you say they're hitting the brakes just because of nostalgia.

More like attempt to not alienate old fans and give some pieces of the Castlevania they liked. To soften an impact of transition from old style to a new one.

..which would mean they do care about "old fan" reactions.

[Flame]

Im sensing a lock in the near future if this bickering doesnt stop...

[Dark Nemesis]

Not to add any flame, but what we have been promised should have been something like thatTomb Raider Reborn New 2011

Instead we 've got, what we 've got, no matter what we have been promised. My point is that you don't have to delete everything from the past, to make a new start.

[A-Yty]

Im sensing a lock in the near future if this bickering doesnt stop...

This is the most civil conversation this forum has seen in years. No one is calling anyone a doodiehead or making yo mama insults.

[Sumac]

To the Crisis:

Why are you guys still even feeding into this nonsense?

You are dissappointed that no one has invited you to the party, aren't you? 

He's more worried about proving his "point" than having an actual discussion.

I am more worried about my sneakers, than proving anything.
I love a good discussion especially with some interesting points rised.

I think the sequel could go the Assasins Creed route and have the game primarilly take place in the present but will occasonially go back into the past during Gabriel/Dracula's reign of power via playable flashbacks.

Poor fanbase will go into histerics and than coma.
Original LOS debates will amount to nothing comparing to this.

To the Dark Nemesis:

What Cox did with most of the enemies he chose to use, was like taking the Norse mythology gods and put them in god of war. I don't think that that would work.

I don't see what fundamenatlly wrong with bringing new characters from different mythologies into Castlevania. As long as they look credible as enemies, not like certain flying bulldogs, everything is OK in my book. If anything it brings more diversity and fresh blood into the enemy cast. Not a bad thing.

You see, castlevania is about monsters born of evil and demons.

Castlevania could be more than that. Why not try it?

Soma on aria, wasn't that kind of cute anime, but a more serious design. Also the levels design was darker than the previous GBA titles. If you want to speak about anime, these are PoR and DoS. Not Aria!!!

I meant more in line of the story in this case. I personally think that in terms of atmosphere and general designs HOD was the darkest from GBA trilogy. At least it tried to be. AOS overall is too bright in my opinion. Not bright as DOS, but still not that dark either.

As far i can remember, i can't remember an old castlevania game without at least one of the trade mark enemies, like medusa heads, bone pillars etc.

Castlevania 2 didn't had Bone Pillars as far as I remember. As well as Haunted Castle, if I am not mistaking.

A Belmont turn to Dracula? Seriously, WTF?

Dracula is a japanese schoolboy? And his castle sealed in the solar ecplipse? Seriously, WTF?!

I haven't seen anything anime inside the game or are you telling that, because it takes place in Japan?

Oh, how about story?
You know - generic schoolboy, suddenly learns that he has superpowers and that he is a reincarnation of the ancient evil. His girlfriend apparently is a descendant of the clan that has sealed that evil. It's like a start of some generic anime or a manga. To complete picture there should be scene set in the Soma's school where he suddenly learns that one of the teachers is Grim Reaper in disguise and one of his classmates is a descendant of clan of vampire hunters, hellbent to kill him. Though there is also supposedly european character with japanese name for whatever reason and Alucard who try to pass as japanese guy named Aricado.
If anything it's even more out of place in Castleania than Belmont - Dracula and fantasy stuff.
And the fact that AOS was set into the future was barely used, aside from some guns. This story could have hapenned some where in 199x, if not crazy backstory about 1999 war.

Seriously, it was the first story to like, after Symphony.

Given SOTN's story it's a certainly not an achievement of the century.

When you are working under preasure to finish as fast as you can the game you are making, with a few resourses, then the fastest way is the copy paste pasta.

That's what I meant actually. He didn't have resources to create new engine, new sprites, execute quality story. But didn't he saw what was lacking in the past games? Couldn't he just improve on them, at least on the basic level, like taking away useless stuff (tonnes of weapons and equipment), not introducing some useless gimmick.

To the A-Yty:

But to get back to the sandbox..PUH-FRIGGIN-LEEZE, Sumac. Should've simply said you were trolling...

Wow, this is heavy, I guess.
You're quite a talent to misinterpreting things and make a faulty guess work.
Think whatever you want, I'm sometimes bad at trying to make people think otherwise about me. But when I'm saying something, it's not coming form desire to troll people, but just form an attempt to better understand what others think and to make see my point of view. In the end it's all about agreing that we disagreeing.

I feel some sort of sympathy towards your misplaced zeal, because the marketing machine

Another misfire on your part.
My sympathy towards LOS doesn't have nothing to do with marketing. Actually I never listen to what marketing machine says and always make my choices on my own. I like LOS because I like LOS, not because I was brainwashed by Cox or was payed to like it.
A concept that someone could form they opinion on they own is hard to swallow nowadays, I know, but try to do it. Not everyone like you stuck in they comfy universe where everything that doesn't go along with your values, immediately count as trash or trolling, sorry, pal. 

When I stop answering to you

Then stop answering me right now, if you want.
Say something that actually contribute to what we've talking about or not say at all. It's quite simple concept.

And if all of Konami's Castlevania eggs will be in the same basket, they'll eventually be left with very, very fickle customer demographics (yes - even fickler than the fanbase you say is difficult to please).

And things were different in the past, because...?

It hasn't been a  a very auspicious beginning for this Castlevania Future Champion even if you disregard the game's lack of Castlevanianess.

It doesn't matter how it began. All that means is how it ends and what it contributes to the series. We saw what is this, we don't know what consequences it'll bring to the series.

[Flame]

Jesus Christ people. Stop this. All this negative energy and forum Drama is going to resurrect Dracula if you don't stop.

Especially since your posts will only get longer and longer, while your arguments get no different at all. You will never agree on anything in this, nor are you capable of agreeing to disagree it seems. I suggest you all just walk away from the argument. You've all had your says on the matter, you've stated your points and counter points, all you are doing is wasting your time and brain cells, and nothing will come of it. All you are doing is making yourselves look childish, and silly.

[Dark Nemesis]

@I don't see what fundamenatlly wrong with bringing new characters from different mythologies into Castlevania. As long as they look credible as enemies, not like certain flying bulldogs, everything is OK in my book. If anything it brings more diversity and fresh blood into the enemy cast. Not a bad thing.

I'm all for it, but when it gets along with the rest and they are not out of space.

@Castlevania could be more than that. Why not try it?

Yew it could, by not deleting all previous enemies and put only random enemies.

@I meant more in line of the story in this case. I personally think that in terms of atmosphere and general designs HOD was the darkest from GBA trilogy. At least it tried to be. AOS overall is too bright in my opinion. Not bright as DOS, but still not that dark either.

Well, i don't find it that bright, but each one has his own opinion i guess!!!

@Castlevania 2 didn't had Bone Pillars as far as I remember. As well as Haunted Castle, if I am not mistaking.

Yes, but it had other classic enemies.

@Dracula is a japanese schoolboy? And his castle sealed in the solar ecplipse? Seriously, WTF?!

Well, if i remember correct, at the prologue, it says that he is a high school exgange student studying in Japan. So that doesn't make him Japanese.

@Oh, how about story?
You know - generic schoolboy, suddenly learns that he has superpowers and that he is a reincarnation of the ancient evil. His girlfriend apparently is a descendant of the clan that has sealed that evil. It's like a start of some generic anime or a manga. To complete picture there should be scene set in the Soma's school where he suddenly learns that one of the teachers is Grim Reaper in disguise and one of his classmates is a descendant of clan of vampire hunters, hellbent to kill him. Though there is also supposedly european character with japanese name for whatever reason and Alucard who try to pass as japanese guy named Aricado.
If anything it's even more out of place in Castleania than Belmont - Dracula and fantasy stuff.
And the fact that AOS was set into the future was barely used, aside from some guns. This story could have hapenned some where in 199x, if not crazy backstory about 1999 war.

As i stated above, he's not a Japanese student and we also had an explanation on how he inherit his abilities.

@Given SOTN's story it's a certainly not an achievement of the century.

Before Symphony, we didn't have an actual story. He might didn't make the greatest stories, but at least he tried. Believe it or not, if it wasn't for him, making these efforts, LoS wouldn't exist today!!!

@That's what I meant actually. He didn't have resources to create new engine, new sprites, execute quality story. But didn't he saw what was lacking in the past games? Couldn't he just improve on them, at least on the basic level, like taking away useless stuff (tonnes of weapons and equipment), not introducing some useless gimmick.

He did that in a level, with OoE. OoE is different from the past games and what i like more on this game, is the difficulty. Yes you can learn the enemies/bosses patterns, but the same goes for every game. So until you figured out all the moves of an enemy or boss and how to avoid them, you will take damage and see the game over screen for some times!!!

In general, if the so famous reboot was, like the one on Tomb Raider and instead of gabriel we 've got Simon with a new design and Dracula as the final boss and a story as similar as we know it and still was having all that new elements that LoS has, i would accepted more as a Castlevania game!!!

[Dark Nemesis]

Jesus Christ people. Stop this. All this negative energy and forum Drama is going to resurrect Dracula if you don't stop.

Especially since your posts will only get longer and longer, while your arguments get no different at all. You will never agree on anything in this, nor are you capable of agreeing to disagree it seems. I suggest you all just walk away from the argument. You've all had your says on the matter, you've stated your points and counter points, all you are doing is wasting your time and brain cells, and nothing will come of it. All you are doing is making yourselves look childish, and silly.

Well, they haven't passed 100 years, since his last resurrection, so he want get up any time soon and  some times you  have to be a kid to underestand some things better!!!