Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[shelverton.]

Look! What a pride! 
http://twitpic.com/1xlbc6

That's really cool! Glad people liked it (well, not the whiny people posting here, but other REAL people. lol)

[LoneChild]

Haha, I don't really want a 3D Castlevania to have stylish combat. Those HOT ENERGY SWIPES coming from Gabriel's cross just put me off. I personally want something more visceral than magic swoops and swings, especially when the game is purporting a grim atmosphere.
It's like...
I'm in a dark forest.
Suddenly, shiny and flashy lights!
Personally ruined the mood for me in that rainy tutorial stage. I would actually prefer it if it was portrayed as dully as the standard whip in LoI, besides the whole "I can stand in the air" combos. The hell was with that.

SO true.

[Maedhros]

That's really cool! Glad people liked it (well, not the whiny people posting here, but other REAL people. lol)

I kinda lurked there, until now...
That's true, the fans here are picky, but I can understand why. But the public is already sold for this game, so, even if there are some guys here who don't like the game, it'll be a huge sucess with the public and critic, that's the way I see it.
It's good to see there are people from MS there. You guys made this series amazing again on consoles. I don't even have a PS3/XBOX360 and I want this game so much... X_X

[DingusBelmondo]

What do people want with combat? how can you have whip fighting any other way. I mean, unless its like in Twilight princess where its third person over the shoulder and you aim where you whip, but that is lame. Name one game you would rather have the whip combat be like.

[kadosho]

Aye, my 360 also faced the "rings"
"Lords" still looks compelling, can't wait till it hits shelves! =D

[nsideus]

What do people want with combat? how can you have whip fighting any other way. I mean, unless its like in Twilight princess where its third person over the shoulder and you aim where you whip, but that is lame. Name one game you would rather have the whip combat be like.

You're missing the point.  It shouldn't be like another game!  It should be unique.

[DingusBelmondo]

You're missing the point.  It shouldn't be like another game!  It should be unique.

You're missing the point. There is a button to attack, a button to jump, off shoots of these buttons, and various ways to use those them. We aren't using a wii mote, we don't have playstation wiggle or whatever. Name five action fantasy games that have extremely uniquely different combat systems from each other. It's not as easy as it sounds.

[RichterB]

What do people want with combat? how can you have whip fighting any other way. I mean, unless its like in Twilight princess where its third person over the shoulder and you aim where you whip, but that is lame. Name one game you would rather have the whip combat be like.

Relax. Theoretically, you could have more of a realistic, physics-based whip with recoil, more along the lines of LoI and CV64. Gabe's is more like a flying razor-blade/streamer, or the weapon from the 2009 movie, Ninja Assassin. However, Dave Cox said they want the action to be snappy and Street Fighter-esque, so basically this was the right choice to get that goal done...(continued after quote)

You're missing the point. There is a button to attack, a button to jump, off shoots of these buttons, and various ways to use those them. We aren't using a wii mote, we don't have playstation wiggle or whatever. Name five action fantasy games that have extremely uniquely different combat systems from each other. It's not as easy as it sounds.

The reason there is this cadre of fan resistance, I think, is because traditionally speaking, Castlevania's combat has been more about placement and limited power versus speed and super-power combos. (It's about feeling the hits, too). Gabe is essentially whirling that thing around like a runaway yo-yo. It's definitely kind of cool, but kind of out of control (you see villagers getting hit by his wide, lightning-fast swings and nothing happening to them). In a perfect world, the Castlevania franchise doesn't need the over-the-top combat of GoW/Ninja Gaiden/etc. Who decided that was a must-have action standard? The reason that combat came about was because designers placed people in a room with a gazillion enemies like the old Smash TV game. 3D Combat can be unique without a growing list of pre-set combos where enemies get smacked twenty-plus times. The combat's depth, if true to Castlevania's spirit, should come primarily from level design. (But then that would go against the popular, mainstream grain).

...I support the decision of a map system ala Castlevania IV. The Metroidvania approach can be clunky--especially in 3D. When Mercury Steam/Cox talk about open areas, though, I wonder how they can be too open and dimensionally deep without a 3D camera. The 2009 next-gen 3D Bionic Commando by Grin/Capcom had a beautifully-crafted 3D world with both linear direction and openness--you could latch onto and swing almost anywhere. That TRULY 3D landscape would have been impossible without player-based camera controls. In fact, 3D platforming with fixed cameras can be a pain. Also, I hope there won't be many boxed-in melee areas at all. They are the opposite of what Castlevania is, and are what hurt LoI. Linear is fine (and often best for dynamic gameplay) as long as it's not boxy.

In the end, I'm not fully pleased or blown away by this LoS interpretation of Castlevania thus far; it's a bit too aesthetically Elder Scrolls/Van Helsing-ish. BUT I still will very likely purchase it. I can tell a lot of effort is going into it. Ultimately, we each have our own (in some cases decades-old) vision of a 3D Castlevania in our heads, and I'd say this effort is exceedingly closer to my vision than Curse of Darkness, though outside of the polished next-gen graphics, not necessarily closer than Castlevania 64. When LoS comes out, I'll be looking for a little less bombast, and a bit more meat-and-potatoes platforming gameplay.

[nsideus]

You're missing the point. There is a button to attack, a button to jump, off shoots of these buttons, and various ways to use those them. We aren't using a wii mote, we don't have playstation wiggle or whatever. Name five action fantasy games that have extremely uniquely different combat systems from each other. It's not as easy as it sounds.

Being unique isn't easy.  But what are they trying to make here.  Another run-of-the-mill action fantasy game or something new and epic. 

And there's actually 2 whip attack buttons.  Weak and Strong.  Exactly like GoW.  Why isn't there just one attack button, or even three?  Why couldn't the right analog stick be used for the whip?  They don't need it for the camera like most games because the camera is fixed.

[DingusBelmondo]

The thing is though, That well placed whip to eliminate the enemy works perfectly in 2D and only 2D. If you want to have more than one enemy coming at you from many directions, you have to move fast and attack fast. In 2D its all about moving back and forth on a horizontal plane and jumping up and down to dodge attacks and move towards an enemy for an attack. That is why no one will ever say that the combat is going to "feel" like castlevania. Unless we were literally walking straight forward on a bridge or catwalk similar combat will not work.

[|/amp /-/unter }{]

Doesn't mean people can't complain and be concerned the whole game will look like that.

People can do whatever they want, I just think its a "judging a book by its cover" deal, ya know.

Seeing a Castlevania done in this way, gives me more hope for a decent movie.  We'll see though.

[Thunderbrand]

LoS is gonna be epic and completely badass. End of story.  

[Kale]

You're missing the point.  It shouldn't be like another game!  It should be unique.

Well, how would you do it, to be unique? Honestly, the combat looks fine as it is... I just hope it doesn't feel like gow.

[Wallachia]

LoS is gonna be epic and completely badass. End of story.  

NEW IGN IMPRESSIONS (well-rounded, I think):
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/110/1100131p1.html

[Dtritus]

Being unique isn't easy.  But what are they trying to make here.  Another run-of-the-mill action fantasy game or something new and epic. 

And there's actually 2 whip attack buttons.  Weak and Strong.  Exactly like GoW.  Why isn't there just one attack button, or even three?  Why couldn't the right analog stick be used for the whip?  They don't need it for the camera like most games because the camera is fixed.

I'm sorry to say this strong/weak attacks thing is not true. What we have is direct/area attacks. There is a hell of a difference compared to GoW. Pay attention to the demo and you'll notice our direct attacks aren't slower than the area ones, which is totally different from GoW. In LoS you make the decision of using one or the other based on enemies presence, position and dexterity. You'll clearly and fully understand this when you play the final game 
About the right analog stick for the whip, you need to remember LoS combat is 3D. Assigning right analog stick to the whip would require from players to move both sticks independently one from the other -one for movements, the other for attacks-. Have you ever tried to do something like that? If the game was 2D, that would be fine but in 3D it would be simply unplayable and not fun at all