Topic: Castlevania Lords of Shadow Mirror Of Fate HD

[Munchy]

To me the LoS soundtrack is like that of Dawn of Sorrow. Sure there are some tracks I like, but on the whole it's pretty bland as far as the series' music goes.

[uzo]

Stop pretending to be thick and like you don't know what I'm talking about.

There are folks here who take any opportunity they can to hate anything LoS just because it's LoS. Swap out Yamane with *insert pre-LoS CV composer* and the point still remains.

If LoS' OST was used with a GoW game, would you still say that Araujo's style doesn't fit with video games? Is MoF the best CV OST out there? No, but it's not the worst either.

If that's how the music in God of War was, then no, that's not good either. That series doesn't quite perk my interest, so I wouldn't know personally. However LoS's musical problems, as far as not fitting into a video game, has nothing to do with it's basic composition style, instrument choices, or (arguably) liveliness.

The basic problem is simply pacing within each track. It is scored as though it is pretending to be a movie sound track. By that I mean it has drastic ups and downs within a single track, representing what would be actions and emotional changes with a stretch of film. When played on top of gameplay, which the player can be doing anything or be anywhere at any given time, the music is bound to desync emotionally, and pacing wise, in regards to the on screen action.

As an example, you could be hearing a segment of the song that is so quiet, you can barely make out anything at all, all while running over collapsing platforms and jumping or whip swinging to safety. Then the next moment you're very slowly shimmying along a cliff face, yet musically it sounds like the gates of Mordor should be opening.

While of course its fairly impossible (at least in this genre) to completely and organically time every moment of gameplay with a corresponding, and exact, musical counter part; you can at least try for an aggregate state of being for that segment of the gameplay. The old Castlevanias did this fairly well, even if the music was 'dissonant' to the visuals at face value. It still held together a consistent emotional wavelength that complimented the action and feeling of the series.

Consistency is the true key here. Like any part of game design; from the art, to the music, to the sound effects, right down to the gameplay. Consistency is the number one goal to achieve.

[Ahasverus]

Castlevania - NES Orchestration (Symphony)

Maan, Yamashita was on fire. That was incredible.

[Belmontoya]

Yeah Uzo has a good point about the pacing of the music in LOS. It's weakness is that it doesn't always match up with the action. I didn't see that as a deal breaker though. I still enjoyed the music enough while I was playing the game to put the OST on my iphone. I listen to it a work often.

I can't remember the name of the composers who did Cv4 off of the top of my head, but for me that soundtrack is still top dog.

[e105beta]

I actually mostly agree with uzo. The music in LoS not only got repeated a lot, it got repeated in a variety of inappropriate parts (i.e. Waterfalls of Agharta being played outside of Agharta) making it impossible to establish a musical theme. Songs really just turned into mood music, which would have been fine if not for the fact that on more than one occasion the music was played at the completely wrong time. A lot of the music became unmemorable to me because a lot of it was used so randomly that I couldn't really place it with the matching in-game experience. It was only after I downloaded the soundtrack that I could really appreciate the music for what it was. I think with maybe a couple of extra songs and some better integration, it could have stood out a lot more.

I still think the music itself is phenomenal though, and that music styled in the vein of the older games really wouldn't have fit.

However, I didn't really get this with MoF. The music seemed properly placed. When you fought monsters, the music picked up; when you were exploring, the music calmed down; and when the environment was suitably menacing, the music got menacing. The best example for me was when first head down into the crypt as Trevor and the music gets far more unsettling, really helping the build-up to the boss. That whole segment is just an example why I think the music and the music design in MoF was more memorable.

[Intersection]

Well, this discussion has gotten rather agitated. Could it all have been my fault? I dearly hope not. And while I'm not too keen on seeing the burgeoning hostilities prolonged, I certainly had promised a more complete appreciation of MoF's soundtrack. Here's the best part, too: I don't believe I fully agree with any of you. So I'd figured my own thoughts might be worthwhile.

In itself, Araujo's soundtrack is a decent one, giving Mirror of Fate its few, if limited, harmonic overtones, and most often providing a solid musical base to keep the game's action going. Certainly, compared to what we've seen in other titles of the genre, it benefits from its skillful orchestration and execution, making it stand out above.
And yet Araujo's score has its limits, and it ultimately fails to perform in the areas for which it was obviously not made. It does nothing to move or inspire the player; it does nothing to introduce variety or provide any concept of change; it fails to convey any sense of focus or direction, instead feeling static and flat; and most importantly, it fails to give the game any sense of individuality. When compared to the generally excellent composition of its predecessors, Mirror of Fate's soundtrack easily falls behind.

While Mirror of Fate offers a relatively large selection of musical pieces, nearly all of them fall into two straightforward categories: "battle" tracks and "platforming"/out-of-battle tracks. You'll be encountering battle music whenever you're asked to fight, whenever enemies are in your vicinity, or every time you encounter a boss. You'll find yourself listening to out-of-battle music whenever you leave combat: namely, whenever you find yourself exploring the castle or platforming through its many areas. Those that fit within those molds are near-identical in everything from structure and orchestration to tone and emotional effect. MoF's score gave me the impression that it had only two tracks -- and that isn't a good sign.

Let's look at the first pattern: you'll hear long, sweeping string chords, waning organically back and forth to a subtly melancholic atmosphere. Always muted and pensive, they're accompanied with soft cues from the orchestra, and their rhythm often set by the quieter wind and percussion instruments. Some give off a more eerie tone, and are accompanied by whispers or slight noises. The harmonies are there, but they're intentionally aimless, unfocused, wandering about instead of moving forward. On their own, these pieces might have been quite decent -- had they been used sparingly, their distant and saddened tonalities might have struck a chord. But as it is, they entirely saturate the game; you'll spend more than half of the game listening to them, and their constantly emulated mood ends up feeling far too tiring than it reasonably should. More importantly, these tracks ultimately lack substance; their music don't really go anywhere, doesn't come with any definite melodic structure; it's content only to move softly back and forth in a way that becomes incredibly tedious in the long run. The more often you listen to it, the more tepid and uninteresting it feels, owing to how shallow and static it actually is. As it stands, Araujo's score is nothing more than an artificial patchwork of aimless harmonies that never never truly amount to anything -- they just oscillate back and forth like an empty lullaby that doesn't want to end. That's all right for a few minutes; but it clearly overstays its welcome after several hours.
What's more, it happens to make the castle feel completely empty and soulless, something you're not absolutely looking for in a hack-and-slash game.

Now for the battle music -- it's as generic as you'll ever get it. It will always be the same: harsh, heavy rhythms; chromatic, dissonant sounds; agitated orchestral patterns; big, menacing brass overtones; noise-like cues; constant shifts in orchestration to keep the "tension" going. It's all precisely designed to pump your blood pressure up, to keep you on edge, to make you feel like you're in the heat of battle -- but there's nothing else behind it. Otherwise, it's the most empty and mindlessly repetitive music you'll find in the gaming world, and Araujo went for it. There really isn't much else to say.
I'd posted that 42-minute long video of MoF battle music earlier. If you can manage to listen through the entire without interruption, then you obviously have more stamina than I do. But I think you'll have understood my point anyhow.

So that was my more 'honest' opinion of Mirror of Fate music. Disagree with me if you will; but I hold true to my claim that Araujo's MoF soundtrack was among Castlevania's worst.

[jestercolony]

Took me a few days, but I finally beat CVMOF-HD. The reason as to why, is because I was too lazy to 100% the game again, but I did it anyways. Personally, I rather enjoyed this more-so than on the 3DS because this is the way the game was suppose to be shown (which was later stated that the game was scaled down to its original port.) So much detail had been put in to the areas, that I rather enjoyed the dark/ambient tone the game was setting. I also enjoyed the fact that it felt pretty good playing a "classicvania-type" after so many years on the console again.

[The Silverlord]

I'm only a fraction of the way through the game myself, and haven't yet returned to it.  The artwork and atmosphere is phenomenal, but there's something lacklustre about proceedings that I can’t quite put my finger on.

It does just feel like a glorified beat 'em up at times.  I don’t really feel incentivised to invest my time and play it through, when it's going to boil down to another cut-scene, another walled-off fight and another climb to another room/area.  I’ve played better in Shadow Complex and Outland and I’d much rather come out and stick on Pac-Man CE DX—there’s much more enjoyment for my time.

I will get there, just not in any rush.  For a tenner though, it's good value!

[Belmontoya]

Yeah. I'm pretty much with Intersection when it comes to MOF. :/

[DoctaMario]

Question time. I have one secret left to get in Simon's portion and it's in the Guards Room. Problem is, once you head right, you have the bottom path which goes to the cells, the top path which has the laser with the knight and magic font behind it and the middle path. The middle path has a gate with a lever behind it. How do I open this gate? I looked at an FAQ but couldn't really find the answer. :/

[EstebanT]

If I remember correctly, you open the gate from the other side. Just go around.

[Claimh Solais]

So, question about the plot to MoF.

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In the cutscenes where you meet Dracula in both Acts I and II, Simon says, "It cannot be!" when Alucard walks into the room. Now, see, I'm assuming he says this because he just discovered that Alucard is the son of Dracula, and I guess Simon doesn't know about their relation to the Prince of Darkness. As well, Simon never actually learns who Alucard really is. Can someone actually confirm for me whether or not the conclusion I've come to is correct?

But yeah, after beating MoF, I very much enjoyed it, but there wasn't nearly as much to do in the game as there was in the first LoS. I 100% MoF in about 11 hours. I have about 30 hours into LoS and I'm still not done with it. But still, I thought it was a really good game. Which I guess is okay, since the game was originally a portable title. But the trailers touted "20 Hours of Gameplay" so I was expecting at least that much. I still have trophies to get, though.

As for the game, I think it probably would have been better if it was the same length, but the entire game focused around Simon. It probably would have made the story flow better, rather than jumping between characters.

(click to show/hide)

Also, a lot of people said they should never have revealed Alucard was in the game, but I think they never should have revealed Trevor. They should've given Simon center stage on the game's cover, and not have Trevor show up anywhere. That would have added a little bit more power to the plot, and Trevor's transformation into Alucard would have been more of a surprise, and would have made it somewhat less predictable.

I don't mind the game's plot was predictable and simple. I found it was more akin to the old Metroidvania titles.

[Intersection]

So, question about the plot to MoF.

In the cutscenes where you meet Dracula in both Acts I and II, Simon says, "It cannot be!" when Alucard walks into the room. Now, see, I'm assuming he says this because he just discovered that Alucard is the son of Dracula, and I guess Simon doesn't know about their relation to the Prince of Darkness. As well, Simon never actually learns who Alucard really is. Can someone actually confirm for me whether or not the conclusion I've come to is correct?

You're correct. There's nothing in Mirror of Fate to suggest that our dumb, lumbering Simon came to understand anything about his own origins. His final exchange with Alucard actually does something to confirm this. Of course, Mirror of Fate's dialogue made so little sense in the end that it's rather had to tell -- but we'll have to get on with what we know.
Poor Simon; he came, he saw, he vanquished -- but he never had an inkling of what happened to him.

I don't mind the game's plot was predictable and simple. I found it was more akin to the old Metroidvania titles.

Well, at least the old Metroidvania plots didn't pretend to be masterpieces. They told us what they needed to tell, and that was all -- never forced us to take them seriously. MoF's story was a convoluted, incomprehensible mess, and still it felt the need to rival with Shakespeare...
But enough. I've complained about this for too long.

As for the game, I think it probably would have been better if it was the same length, but the entire game focused around Simon. It probably would have made the story flow better, rather than jumping between characters.

Agreed. It would have made the plot considerably easier to follow.

[Claimh Solais]

Of course, Mirror of Fate's dialogue made so little sense in the end that it's rather had to tell.

The dialogue made perfect sense to me, save for that line. I especially liked the "Join me in remaking this world." SotN reference that they threw in and made flow with the dialogue (unlike the "What is a man" reference in LoS2 that was really hamfisted into the script).

Well, at least the old Metroidvania plots didn't pretend to be masterpieces. They told us what they needed to tell, and that was all -- never forced us to take them seriously. MoF's story was a convoluted, incomprehensible mess, and still it felt the need to rival with Shakespeare...

I don't exactly know what you mean by this. MoF's plot was pretty easy to follow, and I enjoyed the way it presented itself. It was a very well done story (in my opinion). I just saw ways it could have been done better, like I do with all games.

I particularly enjoyed the ending to Act III in this game. I felt that was tear-jerking and powerful. The 100% ending was kinda underwhelming, but it was a really nice throwback.

[Ahasverus]

I think Simon understands it at the end, unless he had a crush on Alucard, he wouldn't let him touch his face in the way he did, and I'm sure that that carress being just after asking "did you know my father" gave him enough clues about it.