Topic: Reconciling Mathias with Vlad III

[zangetsu468]

I literally yesterday deleted all these HoD images off my phone for taking up too much room, all the photos were dialogue in-game. Boo..

As I recall in the best ending, Maxim fights off evil Maxim - expels him from his consciousness/ body, Dracula's body parts resonate at this point talking smack about destroying Juste, Juste tells him to not underestimate the Bloodline of Belmont, Dracula Wraith gets slain by Juste who re-iterates that he should not underestimate his bloodline, DW says "So this is the power of Belmont... ", Lydie who was supposed to be the sacrifice(vessel) never was and she is saved, game ends.

Things to note/ that are inferred:
- The 2 layers of the Castle (A & B) are the two halves of Maxim's consciousness; one is the regular Maxim, the other being "Dark Maxim". This is also inferred by the layer of the castle in which the player fights the final boss form 1 (Maxim) altering the ending. (I assume in Castle A the original Maxim dies, not the Dark one)
- Lydie was the original vessel for Dracula's resurrection. Therefore assuming that she was sacrificed, the real Dracula and not simply Dracula Wraith would have been incarnated.
- Dracula's remains influenced the original Maxim to find them and kidnap Lydie. At some point after Castle (dual layered) had manifested, Dark Maxim separates the individual remains so that anyone (say Juste) can't tamper with/ destroy them. (I think plottwist and I discussed this in another thread). Which means that if Lydie was used as the sacrifice/ vessel as the first point of call, Dracula would have come back in a stronger and/ or more complete form.
- Original Maxim about half way through the game says to Juste "Dracula's power was so overwhelming." Many can argue it was indeed the power of the remains, not Dracula himself. However, I can't help but think that the remains contain power, specifically power that has come from Dracula directly (although how much is unknown).
- From the above points I think it's somewhat fair to say that Dracula's remains influenced Maxim etc so that Lydie could be the sacrifice/vessel and Dracula could reincarnate in some form. That didn't happen so we got DW, plan B, like how Isaac was plan B to Hector.

Thoughts or anything missed?

[Lumi Kløvstad]

I literally yesterday deleted all these HoD images off my phone for taking up too much room, all the photos were dialogue in-game. Boo..

As I recall in the best ending, Maxim fights off evil Maxim - expels him from his consciousness/ body, Dracula's body parts resonate at this point talking smack about destroying Juste, Juste tells him to not underestimate the Bloodline of Belmont, Dracula Wraith gets slain by Juste who re-iterates that he should not underestimate his bloodline, DW says "So this is the power of Belmont... ", Lydie who was supposed to be the sacrifice(vessel) never was and she is saved, game ends.

Things to note/ that are inferred:
- The 2 layers of the Castle (A & B) are the two halves of Maxim's consciousness; one is the regular Maxim, the other being "Dark Maxim". This is also inferred by the layer of the castle in which the player fights the final boss form 1 (Maxim) altering the ending. (I assume in Castle A the original Maxim dies, not the Dark one)
- Lydie was the original vessel for Dracula's resurrection. Therefore assuming that she was sacrificed, the real Dracula and not simply Dracula Wraith would have been incarnated.
- Dracula's remains influenced the original Maxim to find them and kidnap Lydie. At some point after Castle (dual layered) had manifested, Dark Maxim separates the individual remains so that anyone (say Juste) can't tamper with/ destroy them. (I think plottwist and I discussed this in another thread). Which means that if Lydie was used as the sacrifice/ vessel as the first point of call, Dracula would have come back in a stronger and/ or more complete form.
- Original Maxim about half way through the game says to Juste "Dracula's power was so overwhelming." Many can argue it was indeed the power of the remains, not Dracula himself. However, I can't help but think that the remains contain power, specifically power that has come from Dracula directly (although how much is unknown).
- From the above points I think it's somewhat fair to say that Dracula's remains influenced Maxim etc so that Lydie could be the sacrifice/vessel and Dracula could reincarnate in some form. That didn't happen so we got DW, plan B, like how Isaac was plan B to Hector.

Thoughts or anything missed?

That's pretty much word for word what my take away was from Harmony's translated script. I really like that it was named the Dracula "Wraith" as I think it's a fitting name. It's the closest we could likely get to Zombie Dracula given that his soul wasn't using the body, but rather the remains acting on their own using what they picked up from Maxim's dark side.

A closer literary meaning would probably be "Dracula Revenant", but "Wraith" is close enough, easier to say for most, and still sounds plenty awesome.

Everybody wins.

[theplottwist]

That's pretty much word for word what my take away was from Harmony's translated script. I really like that it was named the Dracula "Wraith" as I think it's a fitting name. It's the closest we could likely get to Zombie Dracula given that his soul wasn't using the body, but rather the remains acting on their own using what they picked up from Maxim's dark side.

A closer literary meaning would probably be "Dracula Revenant", but "Wraith" is close enough, easier to say for most, and still sounds plenty awesome.

Everybody wins.

Funnily he's named "Dracula Phantom" in japanese.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

Funnily he's named "Dracula Phantom" in japanese.

Which is also an excellent word.

I wonder why they didn't just port that name over to the English version? Maybe they were trying to avoid some kind of Phantom of the Opera comparison for some reason?


...and I just got a new topic idea brb

[Dracula9]

I'm naturally stubborn. It's not something I can just turn off with the flick of a switch. I'm just treading more carefully.

That being said, there's no need for harsh language here; that's just going to escalate things again. Kindly refrain from profanities.

I'm naturally inclined to use swears casually. If you get to play the "it's just who I am" card, so will I.

Sometimes there's just nothing like a well-placed fuckin' curse to get a point across. I don't think it's a mark of poor character or manners on my part, as it's part of my regular thought patterns and I dropped a singular bottom-of-the-ladder one. "Goddamn" really isn't much, as I could have easily dropped "worse" words in its place or had one every other non-swear word, but I didn't.

If you're inclined to instantly take any swears as an act of aggression or instigation, that's not my problem.

I wonder why they didn't just port that name over to the English version?

I imagine it has more to do with the word itself. In the Western world, "phantom" is synonymous with "ghost," and you're certainly not encountering the ghost of Dracula. DW is a hollow shell of Big D's true essence and being, and among other definitions (one of which is also synonymous with "ghost," yes) "wraith" can be termed to mean a pale or insubstantial person, or a faint trace of something.

To the best of my knowledge, "phantom" doesn't carry connotations like that. I would be more inclined to believe that he was named Wraith based on those metaphorical definitions, as he is indeed an insubstantial being who is little more than a slight trace of Drac himself.

[zangetsu468]

This is one instance where I think believe the Japanese name was a less apt description than the English version.

Depending whose definition we're going by. The two most differentiated descriptions I've seen were through Websters and Wraith seems more accurate to me.

I also prefer Simon Wraith to the Japanese version's "Shimon".

[Dracula9]

It's even more amusing when you realize that phonetically, its name is Death-mon.



DEATH, MON!

[Lumi Kløvstad]

It's even more amusing when you realize that phonetically, its name is Death-mon.



DEATH, MON!

Okay, you done made me laugh right thar. 

On a completely tangential note, why have we never seen the return of the Simon Wraiths? It always seemed appropriate that a Belmont be confronted by a twisted mockery of themselves. We have had Doppelganger bosses here and there, but the Wraiths always felt... different, like they were a real personal affront to the Belmonts somehow.

[Dracula9]

They're the remnants of every time you died in past games.

[theplottwist]

I think in the case of Dracula's Wraith, the "Phantom" is more about "Image" or "Apparition" or even "Illusion." Many dictionaries define the word "phantom" like this, something illusory and without substance. A mirage.

I think it works, even though I believe the choice of "Wraith" was better to avoid confusion.

They're the remnants of every time you died in past games.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

They're the remnants of every time you died in past games.

Then boy howdy, there's a lot of them to go around.

[Dracula9]

Castlevania already deals with time-travel and alternate realities; the "your in-game death was real and had consequences" concept is no more ridiculous than a dinosaur wizard in leopard-print spandex travelling 10,000 years in the past to kill an old dude in a cape and getting turned into a candle when that old dude's androgynous son kicked his ass.

ORRRRRR the Skeletons are all the SAME skeletons, just reassembled, and they change their outfits because they're bored, and decided to dress up like Simon to make fun of him and laugh with the other skeletons, but got interrupted by the protagonist and had to fight them in-costume.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

the Skeletons are all the SAME skeletons, just reassembled, and they change their outfits because they're bored, and decided to dress up like Simon to make fun of him and laugh with the other skeletons, but got interrupted by the protagonist and had to fight them in-costume.

That has the makings of the greatest fanfic ever.

[theplottwist]

That has the makings of the greatest fanfic ever.

I actually tried doing something like that with the Simon Wraith lol

http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,7165.msg161509.html#msg161509