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Offline AlexCalvo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #120 on: February 28, 2020, 04:17:25 AM »
+1
Was it the crimson stone itself that made him a vampire?  Or the fact that he used it to steal Walter's soul that did?
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2020, 07:29:31 AM »
+1
Was it the crimson stone itself that made him a vampire?  Or the fact that he used it to steal Walter's soul that did?

The dialogue between Leon and Rinaldo (in the Japanese version at least) makes it seem like the act of stealing a vampire's soul is what makes you a vampire. This does raise the question of why Mathias just didn't steal Joachim's soul, especially since a cutscene implies he was present (but invisible) during the fight between Joachim and Leon. Unless he had already obtained a vampire's soul before he stole Walter's.   
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 07:31:48 AM by Nagumo »

Offline Holy Diver

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2020, 02:38:38 PM »
+1
The dialogue between Leon and Rinaldo (in the Japanese version at least) makes it seem like the act of stealing a vampire's soul is what makes you a vampire. This does raise the question of why Mathias just didn't steal Joachim's soul, especially since a cutscene implies he was present (but invisible) during the fight between Joachim and Leon. Unless he had already obtained a vampire's soul before he stole Walter's.   
Uhhhh, wasn't there a thread on the forums where someone said something along the lines of he wanted the soul of a more powerful vampire or something. I know there was a discussion regarding Mathias and his means of becoming a dark lord, but can't remember any details.

Edit: Ok found the thread but apparently in Japanese version Mathias just said he wanted a vampire's soul vs. the US version where he said he wanted a powerful vampire's soul.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 03:12:42 PM by Holy Diver »
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #123 on: February 29, 2020, 06:42:25 AM »
+1
Yeah, so if he just wanted a vampire's soul, you would think he could just steal it from any ordinary vampire. Unless the main point of his plan in LoI wasn't stealing Walter's soul, but rather to make Leon renounce God like he did and convince him to become a vampire as well.

Offline AlexCalvo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #124 on: February 29, 2020, 04:04:29 PM »
+3
Well I think it's a pretty obvious answer... Walter is much more powerful than Joachim, so I imagine his soul makes Mathias a lot more powerful than Joachim's would have.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #125 on: March 01, 2020, 01:42:57 AM »
+1
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose? I would have been nice if they had addressed that more clearly in the game.

Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #126 on: March 01, 2020, 09:02:19 AM »
+1
I’ve always gotten the impression that Mathias became a vampire to spite God for taking Elizabeta from him, while it was Lisa’s death that turned him against humanity.
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Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #127 on: March 01, 2020, 10:18:13 AM »
+1
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose? I would have been nice if they had addressed that more clearly in the game.

Most likely to become the direct counterpart to god, to spite him. Not only eternal life, but to become Satan, as an ultimate "screw you" basically, although he obviously never intended to make use of this power against humanity until Lisa's death.
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #128 on: March 01, 2020, 10:38:03 AM »
+2
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose?

I'm pretty sure Rinaldo's talking more of Walter than of Mathias, hinting at the fact Walter is after the other stone, which is confirmed later. Mathias seemed pretty satisfied he had just enough to become immortal with some cool new powers.

"Then why want Walter's soul and not just some vampire's?"

My interpretation is: Mathias is a strategist. How strategically advantageous is it to capture a lowly vampire that might be a slave to stronger one? Worse - imagine ignoring the chance to destroy an invincible vampire that wants the stone you have. Worse yet - imagine making a deal with that vampire and backpedalling to capture his underling. No matter the scenario, it's still a bad move to capture any other vampire except the invincible one with exactly the intention to get your stone.

Ignoring Walter because "any vampire works" is asking for trouble. Mathias going STRAIGHT for the vampire with invincibility powers and interest on his stone, coupled with Rinaldo's spiel, implies to me that it was no coincidence. He was trying to weed-out the apex predator. There is no "living forever" if some impervious vampire with an enormous army goes after you.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 11:08:46 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #129 on: March 01, 2020, 03:16:36 PM »
+1
I'm pretty sure Rinaldo's talking more of Walter than of Mathias, hinting at the fact Walter is after the other stone, which is confirmed later. Mathias seemed pretty satisfied he had just enough to become immortal with some cool new powers.

"Then why want Walter's soul and not just some vampire's?"

My interpretation is: Mathias is a strategist. How strategically advantageous is it to capture a lowly vampire that might be a slave to stronger one? Worse - imagine ignoring the chance to destroy an invincible vampire that wants the stone you have. Worse yet - imagine making a deal with that vampire and backpedalling to capture his underling. No matter the scenario, it's still a bad move to capture any other vampire except the invincible one with exactly the intention to get your stone.

Ignoring Walter because "any vampire works" is asking for trouble. Mathias going STRAIGHT for the vampire with invincibility powers and interest on his stone, coupled with Rinaldo's spiel, implies to me that it was no coincidence. He was trying to weed-out the apex predator. There is no "living forever" if some impervious vampire with an enormous army goes after you.

This precicely. The only way Mathias could ensure his middle finger to god could work is if no one else is stronger than him to bereave him of his newly-acquired immortality.
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Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2020, 03:52:23 PM »
+2
Well that was definitely quite the season.  It’s definitely a new story, although Isaac’s story seems to be heading towards his CoD incarnation’s madness.  His characterisation was so damn good.  I loved Lenore - the red haired vampiress.  She was really interesting and fit the story and setting well.  Bill Nighy though was amazing.  He suited St Germain really well, who while a very different St Germain to the one in CoD, you could see touches of him.  Jason Isaac’s was wonderfully sinister as the Judge.  I won’t give spoilers but I can see why they cast him in that role.  My biggest issue was an element that appeared in episodes nine and ten that I personally found very hard to watch.  But it pushed that character in a tough direction that I found the aftermath of wanting to see more of.  Carmilla’s quartet (herself included there) were really interesting, and I liked the relationship between Striga and Morenna.
  It’s an odd season in a way, very transitionary.  It clearly says that they are hopefully playing a longer term game with more seasons ahead, as the story was left with many threads hanging.  The music was like with season two quite nondescript most of the season... then you got to the last two episodes and the climax battle and wham!  The music totally changed and was far more what you’d expect of Castlevania.
  If I’m correct, I can also see a potential thing in how they could possibly link Castlevania to the wider Bootleg multiverse, especially Devil May Cry.  It also sort of worked it felt as akin to elements of Portrait of Ruin, and St Germain in the games, while being different. 

  I’m trying to keep this spoiler free for those who’ve not like me binged this today.
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Offline Sindra

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2020, 04:14:11 PM »
+1
TatterSeraph is being generous.

Shitty original characters that weren't enjoyable enough to really care about. Storylines that didn't go anywhere. MORE POLITICS. More drawn-out scenes that do nothing. The only things that were enjoyable were some of the pretty environments and a few easter eggs/lore nuggets.


Season 3 was a whole lot more of the shit that made season 2 boring and pointless, with far less of the fun that made season 2 tolerable.

Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #132 on: March 05, 2020, 04:22:07 PM »
+2
It focused on character development over action and plot, while serving as a transition vehicle to evolve things more intimidate a wider story.  It felt like a bridge between the CV3 adaptation of the first two seasons and towards something that feels in part inspired by CoD it seems, showing Isaac’s descent into evil insanity.  I liked the character development and philosophical stuff.  Yes, this won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, and the number of loose threads left hanging by the end some might find unsatisfying.  I also don’t mind being challenged at times with what I watch and have to think.  I don’t want all smashy smashy action with no characters.
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Offline Sindra

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #133 on: March 05, 2020, 05:08:12 PM »
+1
Who developed character though?


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