Topic: LoS: Why do some fans hate it?

[Chernabogue]

In my quest to understand the CV fanbase, I'd like to know why some of the fans are hating LoS. I like this game and do think it is a great addition to the series, even if it is a reboot.

Is it because of its plot ? A Belmont who becomes the Lord of Darkness, the presence of Satan as main antagonist, etc.

Is it because of its music? Oscar Araujo has been critisied for creating a "blank" soundtrack, at the opposite of what the series is known of.

Is it because it's using stuff for other games? Shadow of the Colossus bosses, God of War gameplay, etc.

Is it because of its bestiary? No Medusa head, creatures from Lord of the Ring, bizarre vampires, etc.

Is it because of another thing? Explain, propose and discuss here, please.

Also, no Dark Priest option. Deal with it.

Thanks for your time.

[Nagumo]

I hate it because it dismisses the creativity and uniqueness of the series. Instead it is replaced by the unimaginative Lords of Shadow universe that lacks the flair of the series. It also doesn't help Lords is one of the most blatant examples of selling out I've ever seen. It's like seeing someone you really like go into prostitution or something. 

But as a game Lords is ok, I guess.             

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

You forgot an "all of the above" option.

[Chernabogue]

You forgot an "all of the above" option.

No, because I want a precise point that make people hating LoS, and not having a full trolling response.

[uzo]

Is it because of its plot ? A Belmont who becomes the Lord of Darkness, the presence of Satan as main antagonist, etc.

The plot is not doing it any favors, that is for sure. Gabriel becoming Dracula didn't make much sense at the point of the normal game ending. In fact it was all pointing in the opposite direction. It is as if the end point was demanded, and the story had to inevitably end up there. So in a series of cheap and shitty writing twists, via DLC, we ended up there somehow.

There is also the whole tricking the fanbase by heavily implying that Dracula was in the game, and Gabriel would fight him, in the trailers. Par for the course for Cox though, it would seem.

Is it because of its music? Oscar Araujo has been critisied for creating a "blank" soundtrack, at the opposite of what the series is known of.

Opinion wise, I like the old style of mixed genres and unique sound tracks. Fact wise, Araujo's tracks were completely movie style. Game composition is NOT the same as other types. You're setting the mood for the typically indefinite duration of the segment you are currently in. Araujo's music just changes moods so much within the single tracks themselves, that you will often get mismatched moments. Hurried epic, while slowly shimmying on a cliff side, and quiet calm while racing down a collapsing platform segment.

Some of his tracks aren't that bad, but he needs to understand what game composition is instead of trying to shoe horn movie compositions into it and hope it's good enough.

Is it because it's using stuff for other games? Shadow of the Colossus bosses, God of War gameplay, etc.

I personally don't see a problem with this, as games barrow concepts back and forth all the time. However, when you try to do this, make sure that you do not completely fail and cause something much more inferior to the original. Case in point: the titan battles.

Is it because of its bestiary? No Medusa head, creatures from Lord of the Ring, bizarre vampires, etc.

One of the things that makes Castlevania stand out is it's interesting and imaginative cast of baddies. I don't mind so much the changed vampire image, but I do find it a bit insulting and disappointing that the cast of normal enemies has been downgraded to blatant Lord of the Rings ripoffs. There is a place for Lord of the Rings, but that place is NOT in a Castlevania game. There are plenty other generic medieval titles that can use this. I like Castlevania because it is not generic, and the same as all the others.

That is not to say the entire bestiality was awful. The rotting corpse guys with detached heads, and the casket spiders were pretty awesome. We did at least get some magically animated armors too.

Is it because of another thing? Explain, propose and discuss here, please.

I think another thing that set fans off in the wrong direction, was the unwarranted self assurance of the whole thing. Cox and his band of men gave the impression that there was something terribly WRONG with how Castlevania is, and that it is incompatible with the current generation of game players. Most of us would completely disagree.

As a whole, Lords was NOT by any means a BAD game. In fact, gameplay and graphic wise I really enjoyed it. It's not perfect, but a high quality, and perfectly serviceable, game. The contention comes into play when you decide to slap the Castlevania title on it. Once you do that, the bar is raised high, and many cannot seem to meet the mark. It doesn't help your case when you openly shit on 25 years of the series history while doing so.

Oh, and...

Also, no Dark Priest option. Deal with it.

Who even started that? It's beyond lame.

[Foffy]

I think the plot is what has probably divided many people here. It aims to branch off into its own thing, so the differences and liberties it takes with that will potentially sour people who have been longtime fans. Seeing some of the responses on how people think the current state of the franchise is not good when Lords has been a larger blip on the radar than regular Castlevania games makes me believe the changes the game does with series staples are more disappointing for fans.

For me, the plot is what ruins the game for me, as a longtime Castlevania fan. Now, this is Castlevania, a series that to be honest, has never once had a good plot in the series. Which is why it's quite offensive, going into Lords with this in mind, only to see it have a plot developed by a 14 year old who must have been given a promotional deal to stop writing fan fiction and work on a game. The fact the game obliterates the most basic staple of the franchise (Belmont vs. Dracula) is just the stake in the heart for me. I remember playing the game, hoping to myself "please don't do any stupid plot twists..." and then I saw the epilogue and was just so disgusted. If they re-released Lords and removed the final level in the main game, the ending, the epilogue, and all of the garbage DLC, I would actually like the games plot more. It's just the whole castle crumbles literally once you play the final main level on the disc, and only gets worse from there.

Gameplay wise I found the combat to be a bit of an evolution from the core combat system of Lament of Innocence, but relics were more found based on progression and less on exploration. Enemy variety was pretty good, too, but the game had too much handholding for a Castlevania game. Checkpoints in levels is fine, but does every fucking object have to glow before I can figure out I can use it? Why do bosses have checkpoints? That absolutely breaks the flow of the game for me.

At least the castle was amazing. It was probably my favorite castle in any of the 3D games, and the only one that had a competent castle in that comparison was the N64 entry.

[crisis]

I think another thing that set fans off in the wrong direction, was the unwarranted self assurance of the whole thing. Cox and his band of men gave the impression that there was something terribly WRONG with how Castlevania is, and that it is incompatible with the current generation of game players. Most of us would completely disagree.

this is how i feel as well. When LoS was announced COX made it his business to constantly downplay & berate not only previous games, but the fans of those games. "Castlevania is broken, we're here to fix it" was his mentality, along with his "haterz will never understand LoS," "we're remaking the series from the ground up & to hell with you if you don't agree with us" comments made him sound very immature, especially when it comes to criticism (when his game received "average" scores, he responded very childishly on Twitter. Really, dude?)

I can overlook the plot twists (pretty lame but at least it's "different," but I hate the whole Zobek is Lord of the Dead is Death, fucking retarded) Belmont's Theme gives me hope that Araujo can deliver, and the graphics are superb. What essentially pisses me off about the game are uninspired enemy designs, scenario was too long for it's own good, QTE's are PLAYED OUT, and pointless name-dropping in a desparate attempt to convince us that they "care" about the series they're rebooting. Give Gabriel a "whip-sword," take out the Castlevanian names such as "Belmont," and you have a brand-new IP! (which, lets not forget, was how it was originally announced but we've discussed that to death already)

[A-Yty]

It doesn't make an honest effort to be Castlevania.

[Kingshango]

As someone who liked Lords of Shadow (don't hurt me fanboys/girls) I can understand why the hardcore fans hate it. The entire game felt foreign to fans that stuck by the series for years and seeing the their favorite series turn into something it's not and so suddenly is really unsettling. Combined with the fact that the main canon has been left unfinished and IGA has apparently been unceremoniously demoted to make obscure shovelware while the makers of Clive Barkers Jericho get to make a big budget (as big as Castlevania has ever gotten) Castlevania game with the assistance of Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima and did whatever the hell they wanted to do while disregarding everything that made castlevania great in the first place just so that Konami can ride on the God of War train.

Oh and the entire mis direction of the games development overall, was it originally Castlevania? Why did it get canned and turned into Lords of Shadow? What happened to that Alucard game back in 2008? Why lie to the fans about the QTE's when they're clearly in the game?

That's why the fans hate the game, the mis direction by not only Cox, but by Konami in general. People seem to forget that this shit may have been planned during the development of Order of Ecclesia back in 2008, so god knows what Konami's been cooking regarding this series and others(looking at you Contra.) So it's not that the fans hate LOS(although some clearly dispise the game), it's that the fans are greatly disappointed by the actions that Konami has taken regarding their own flagship series so they need something to amplify their hate too and LOS is the bi product of this "new Konami."

[Vrakanox]

The first two are definitely the primary reasons. The fact that Castlevania went from something unique that was evolving and adding new elements to each game was the thing I loved the most about it. After OoE I was ready for Castlevania to take the next step, hopefully it still will, the DS Castlevanias were some of the best in the series. Then with LoS it just became a mish mash of all the other games out there. If I wanted to play God of War, I'd play God of War, SotC same thing, Nathan Drake same thing. I want Castlevania to be Castlevania first and foremost.

The plot change is more of a personal preference. My motto is, if it aint broke dont fix it. I'm a huge fan of Bram Stokers Dracula, so I love how the old timeline was based off of that. Lament of Innocence was just fine as the game to kick off the story and set the background. On top of this it was released just last generation! The game did not need a reboot of its story. It's the same thing with Devil May Cry. Devil May Cry III happened not that long ago. Why restart the series so soon?

For the music. I loooooove Michiru Yamane's music. Judgement, Curse of Darkness, SotN had amazing soundtracks. I blast them in the car with my windows down. Then came Oscar Arujo and it was just meh. Just kind of run of the mill. What I would suggest is that if they aren't going to do a great soundtrack maybe just pick the best songs out of their new ones and put a lot of the old iconic Castlevania songs in the game (see Castlevania Judgements soundtrack).

IGAs monsters are no big deal but it would be cool to see Legion and Beelzebub again. Also I like how his vampires weren't generic Underworld inspired vampires.

[darkwzrd4]

I don't hate it.  It just doesn't feel like a true CV to me.  That is all.  It's a decent game (except for the titan fights).  I believe that if it wasn't called Castlevania and was its own stand alone series, it wouldn't be hated so much.  It seems that the only reason so many people hate it is because it bears the castlevania name and yet is so radically different from the already existing castlevania series.  It is because of this that many of us consider it to be a blasphemy.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

It's an okay game. It's just not Castlevania. Take out the "Belmont" in our lead's name, and people would hardly see the resemblance.

[Sumac]

After OoE I was ready for Castlevania to take the next step

That's exactly what LOS was for me. Next step. Maybe not a smooth one, but anyway, somethings should be sacrificed along the ride.
Another "metroidvania" would be another SOTN clone. With probably even more copypaste...wait there already exists Harmony of Despair.

[Thomas Belmont]

I like the game a lot, but it just doesn't feel "Castlevania-ish." I also dislike that it takes about five minutes to kill even the weakest of enemies.

[X]

Is it because of its plot ?

I wasn't so concerned with the plot was I was with the game itself. But now that I've had time to mull it over... Like LoI, the portrayal of Dracula was just not right let alone true. It wasn't the Real Badass Dracula we grew up with. Having Satan as the final boss? No. He was not the embodiment of all that is evil in Castlevania. If anything he serves Dracula as did every other nightmare in the series.

Is it because of its music?

With all of the wide selection of music that was presented in the soundtrack you'd think they'd have all of it in the game...but that's not what I heard. Instead I heard bits and pieces mixed about the levels and even the combat music would play for a short time then unexpectedly stop and restart with no smooth transition. I would've much rather have heard renditions of the traditional Cv tunes as they seem to work.

Is it because it's using stuff for other games?

Nowadays it is quite hard to crank out a new game that does not include already existing mechanics of other games. LoS unfortunately didn't even try. Gabriel was essentially Kratos except a lot weaker in strength and combat. The Titan battles were way too SotC in nature rather then being something unique and inviting. It would have been better if the titan battles were like the forgotten one in LoI. At least that fight was unique.

Is it because of its bestiary?

For me, Castlevania isn't about the enemies featured in fairy realms or other Lord of the Rings nonsense. CV had it's own staple of enemies. Many of which were awesome. Even the bosses were cool too. But as bad as the enemies were in LoS, their looks and such cannot compare to the amount of time it took to kill them. To. Friggin. Long. At least in GoW I could smite them in just under a few seconds unlike LoS where it took me almost a whole minute on the weakest of enemies. Just stupid.

Is it because of another thing?

The overuse of the QTEs is probably the biggest contributer to its failings as a CV game in general. We were told there would be none. That's not what we experienced in the end. And even then I had to struggle just to make sense of how to properly execute the QTE so that the enemy would stay dead...Thanks guys. And what's with the DLC in order to finish the game?? If a game isn't finalized, it doesn't leave development! A lot of games nowadays are having this issue and it's stupid. For me the answer is simple: If you run out of room on one disc, use another. A two-disc game is nothing new. At least I'll be getting my money's worth then.

Also, no Dark Priest option. Deal with it.

Kinda a shame 'cause if there ever was a Dark Priest I'd invite him to fill a role in LoS and show Konami how it's properly done right.

All in all, this title left me hanging...in a barbed wire noose.