Topic: Castlevania - The Plot Hole Thread

[Nagumo]

Since we're done talking about Legends, I would like to talk about another plot hole. So, we all know that the Belmonts have the Vampire Killer and they can kill Dracula with it. However, other heroes like Alucard and Hector are able to defeat him as well, without using the whip of course.

That makes we wonder, has the Vampire Killer as a plot device any meaning in the overarching storyline of the series? I know that it was created in order to defeat Walter with it, but that was because he had the Ebony Stone (I think) but Dracula obviously never obtained it. Otherwise a non-Belmont could never defeat him and it wouldn't matter if he was at full power or not. 

Does that mean that the Vampire Killer was only made to kill an one-shot villain? I mean, it's not like they Belmonts need the VK, a regular Alchemy whip seems to be just as effective as shown in Lament in which it was already strong enough to kill vampires and legendary monsters such as Medusa as well.   

Thoughts?   
       

[darkwzrd4]

Well, in LoI, the VK is called "the of the children of the night".  Meaning that it is effective against all supernatural creatures of the night (not just Walter).  I think the implication is that the whip can piece any special defense, such as the ebony stone, that individuals like Walter may use.
As for how Alucard and other non-Belmonts can defeat Dracula, Dracula doesn't have any special items that protect him like the ebony stone protected Walter.  So theoretically, whether the hero is able to use the VK or not is a moot point.  The only reason the Belmonts still use the VK is because that's how they are trained to hunt and destroy their enemies.

[MeSako]

It's a weapon of tradition.. nothing more, to me that is.

It is said that the whip is stronger than any sword, even when it was just the alchemy whip, but in PoR there are weapons much stronger than VK. Don't remember if they are swords or not thou.

[darkwzrd4]

It's a weapon of tradition.. nothing more, to me that is.

It is said that the whip is stronger than any sword, even when it was just the alchemy whip, but in PoR there are weapons much stronger than VK. Don't remember if they are swords or not thou.

The weapons that were stronger than the VK in PoR were the slow weapons that in real life would require the use of both hands (spears, great swords, and axes)

[X]

PoR's Holy Claymore was the strongest sword in the game. But once I got the Vampirekiller and the magic ring from completing all the quests, then I'd simply retire it.

-X

[Danial]

I think the Alchemy Whip is strong enough to kill almost anything.  But Walter was protected by the Ebony Stone, which only the Vampire Killer could destroy.

Mathias was transformed into a vampire by the Crimson Stone, and given power by it, but I don't think that stone offered him the protection that the Ebony Stone did for Walter.  Since Dracula isn't protected the way Walter was, I think any powerful magic or weapon would be effective in killing him.  Obviously this pertains to the Vampire Killer, but I think it also pertains to other magical weapons like the Hunter Whip, which I've always seen as another full formed Alchemy Whip that wasn't turned into a Vampire Killer. 

I also think that killing Dracula isn't just about the weapon.  No matter what magical sword, spear, whip, etc. one uses, every warrior that has faced and killed Dracula also has incredible amounts of fortitude.  Not only did every warrior have to make it to Dracula, they also had to fight him in his many forms.  And with a few exceptions, most of them did it alone.  Not just anyone can do that, or Joe the peasant farmer would just take care of it with his pitchfork every time Castlevania rises out of the mists.

I think when it comes to killing Dracula, the warrior is just as important, or even more important, than the weapon they use.

[Reinhart77]

one big thing is that all the times the VK was not used to kill Dracula, it was during one of his "early" resurrections, where he was not thought to be at his full power.  it may be that when he's at full power, the VK is the only thing that can send him back to the other world and require another 100 years before he's at his full strength again.  even when help is given in the form of an Alucard or Maria, I'll bet the final "canon" blow was always with the VK. 

the one exception to this seems to be that Dracula appeared to be at his "full" power during Judgment, as its made clear that this was the first time Alucard had faced him alone at his full power (I'm pretty sure Dracula entered the rift at the very beginning of his 1999 resurrection as a result, considering he was at full power and "remembered" Eric), but the end result of defeating Dracula in the rift was not to send him back to hell and trigger another 100 year resurrection cycle.

it may be that even if you did manage to kill Dracula without using the Vampire Killer while he was at his full strength, he would still be at his "full strength" the next time his minions pull of an early resurrection, which could be the very next day for all we know if he wasn't killed properly.

[darkwzrd4]

one big thing is that all the times the VK was not used to kill Dracula, it was during one of his "early" resurrections, where he was not thought to be at his full power.  it may be that when he's at full power, the VK is the only thing that can send him back to the other world and require another 100 years before he's at his full strength again.  even when help is given in the form of an Alucard or Maria, I'll bet the final "canon" blow was always with the VK. 

the one exception to this seems to be that Dracula appeared to be at his "full" power during Judgment, as its made clear that this was the first time Alucard had faced him alone at his full power (I'm pretty sure Dracula entered the rift at the very beginning of his 1999 resurrection as a result, considering he was at full power and "remembered" Eric), but the end result of defeating Dracula in the rift was not to send him back to hell and trigger another 100 year resurrection cycle.

it may be that even if you did manage to kill Dracula without using the Vampire Killer while he was at his full strength, he would still be at his "full strength" the next time his minions pull of an early resurrection, which could be the very next day for all we know if he wasn't killed properly.

I agree with you to a point.  I think it is nearly impossible for a human not using the VK (or a weapon like it) to defeat Dracula when he is at his full power.  However, I think that it is possible for a non-human (or an individual of demonic decent) to do it without the VK.  For example, Alucard in Judgment.  It would be still be very difficult, but still within reason.

[Inccubus]

The way I always interpreted the VK whip is that it was what allowed an ordinary human to be on Dracula's level.
The Belmonts are just human after all. Even if they are at their full potential, it is the whip that gives them the edge.
What other mere human ever defeated Dracula? Pretty much every other character that has done the job had some sort of powers, right?
Alucard is a vampire & his son. The Belnades/Fernandez clan are powerful mages/witches. Are there any obvious ones that were just people? Grant perhaps, but I guess you could say he had Trevor's help.

[Reinhart77]

anybody have any idea why a Belmont's blood was the key to the chaotic realm (or whatever the heck that place was) in Curse of Darkness?  um, and what the cosmic implications for that are?

[darkwzrd4]

anybody have any idea why a Belmont's blood was the key to the chaotic realm (or whatever the heck that place was) in Curse of Darkness?  um, and what the cosmic implications for that are?

Good question.  It is never really explained.  Also, just before Issac stabs Trevor, he states that placing a guard there (Dullahun) played a part in breaking the seal.  This leads to four more questions: 1) Who sealed the castle? 2) When was it sealed? 3) Who placed the guard there? 4) If the Belmonts placed the guard there, why did they choose an entity of darkness?

[X]

Whenever I played the old CV games I never thought that the whip itself was anything special except for the fact that only a Belmont could wield it. I my mind it was the Belmonts themselves that carried the power to subdue Dracula and unless you were a Belmont by blood then there was no way in hell that you would be able to take down the king of vampires. It didn't matter if you were another vampire, a wizard, etc. But when SotN came out everything I thought I knew was tossed out the window.   

-X

[Reinhart77]

Good question.  It is never really explained.  Also, just before Issac stabs Trevor, he states that placing a guard there (Dullahun) played a part in breaking the seal.  This leads to four more questions: 1) Who sealed the castle? 2) When was it sealed? 3) Who placed the guard there? 4) If the Belmonts placed the guard there, why did they choose an entity of darkness?

um...  must have been Alucard?  maybe he and Dullahan go way back?  i could see him say "hey Trevor, your eye is bleeding profusely.  let me have some of that stuff before you patch it up for a second."  if he figured out how to seal the castle in an eclipse in 1999, maybe this was his first crack at it?

shoot, i feel robbed.  if volume 3 of the COD manga had actually been made, maybe we'd understand this a little better.  it might have had some excellent flashbacks from around this time if it focused on Trevor.

[darkwzrd4]

um...  must have been Alucard?  maybe he and Dullahan go way back?  i could see him say "hey Trevor, your eye is bleeding profusely.  let me have some of that stuff before you patch it up for a second."  if he figured out how to seal the castle in an eclipse in 1999, maybe this was his first crack at it?

shoot, i feel robbed.  if volume 3 of the COD manga had actually been made, maybe we'd understand this a little better.  it might have had some excellent flashbacks from around this time if it focused on Trevor.

I feel the same.  Oh why was the manga discontinued.

[Inccubus]

For some reason I was under the impression that it was Trevor who put Dullahan there. If he did I could only assume that it was with Alucard and Sypha's help.

On another note, anybody ever wonder where Sypha and Grant were during Curse of Darkness? Affair? (j/king)