Topic: LoS: Why do some fans hate it?

[Maedhros]

I would try to make the platforming better than the Uncharted one they used. Which fucking sucks.
I would try to put monsters from the series re-imagined in 3D.
The combat would be an evolution of the LoI one. Even if the combat in LoS was really alright.

Instead of corridors, like LoS (God of War again), the map would be a bit more like Demons Souls/Dark Souls or Batman Arkam City. They don't need to be fucking huge, but a bit more open and allow more exploration (even if the main game itself would be linear).
The sub-weapons would be more used, completely different from what it's in this game.

Just some ideas.

[Kingshango]

That's another thing I wondered about. We always complained about the lack of traditional Castlevania enemies in Lords of Shadow but how exactly would they work in a 3D space? I can see something  Medusa being a enemy but Medusa heads would be difficult to pull off in 3D. In fact any flying type of enemy would be hard to do unless it was a boss instead of a normal enemy (Which is probably why bats were used as projectiles by bosses instead of being a normal enemy type.)

I almost forgot that they did at least try to replicate Medusa heads with the headless zombies.

[Ahasverus]

A Demon's Souls clone.

Because that would be very original and Castlevania-ish right? 

^Maedhros: I agree with every single point you made up there. I'd hit that.

^King: I think MedusaHeads would act like the deattached heads from the Headhunters, only many more at the time, and very annoying.

[Sumac]

Yes i agree with that, but it sacrificed the rest of the elements, that they have define the series for!!!

Ans still "stylistic choices" of LOS has nothing with the quality of the game itself.

The Belmont's family against the powers of darkness. In LoS, we see that the family who's supposed to destroy evil, that it turned to be the one who has brought it, by turning the first Belmon't into Dracula.......

Fuck it. Plain and simple.
In the old canon we have muc more outstanding bullshit like Dracula being reincornated as some japanese guy, Belmonts couldn't use their weapon for two hundred years for no clear reason whatsoever, some monster from the future wanted to wipe out reality and there is mistery oragnisation of time travelers.
Besdes, LOS set in its own universe. Stop reacting as if it changed stuff in your precious old Castlevania. LOS has nothing to do with the old series, and by the way, it haven't deleted old games from existence. It seems it boil down to simple inability to handle changes of something that was clearly intended to be different from the begining. Or just to put it simply: childish whining that you couldn't have game like in 1997.

SOTN was the continuation of RoB and while it changed the game play style, still it was having its unique style from other games of that time, most of the classic enemies redone with new sprites, new and old music from who the series where known for and Richter with Maria, they were also there.

1. While being continuation of ROB, SOTN had little to do with the style of that game. It expanded on it and turn into something new. It goes for the style of the game itself and for the artwork. It's a significant difference between SOTN, ROB and everything that was done before.
2. Gameplay was heavily changed. No whip, RPG elements, magic subsystem, transformations. Nothing of it was present in the past games of the series, save for CV2 and even then the way how some of those elements were realized in that particular game was very different form SOTN execution.
3. There were barely any of the old tracks in the SOTN (actually like in other BIG CV projects like CV64, LOI and LOS for that matter). Most of the remixes were added only in the Saturn version of the game.
4. I don't see how peresence of the certain characters connected with stylistic choices of the game. And I remind you that LOS set in the new universe - and if anything, presence of the old characters wasn't mandatory for that game.

It would have been silly having Alucard using a whip, so they gave him an arsenal of weaponry and its unique game play style, but still it was having the classic hero, Richter Belmont to play with a whip. Final conclusion? It only changed the game play for Alucard. It didn't change anything else from the series!!!

Richter was an optional character. LOS has whip-wielder from the begining.

And going with your arguments it looks like all games before SOTN had leveling, inventory, tonnes of weapons and equipment, magical subsystems, transformations, special abilites for the characters...
After all that I have only one single question: have you ever played in anything that was released before SOTN?

by changing the whole game and keeping only the name or names, it doesn't make it what its name says.....

CV64, LOI says HI.
They maybe wasn't deliberately deattached from previous CV styles, but on their own they both were major changes to the series. And if you look at those two games, and don't take into account anything in between, aside from having whip-wielding characters, CV64 and LOI has practically nothing in common. The same goes for LOS.

They could have really went with the idea of remaking the first Castlevania, using the same graphics engine, ending making a awesome 3D Castlevania game, but instead of that, they chose to scrap it and create something from scratch,

They stiil used old CV games as inspiration. And its shows. Not always, but sometimes.

enemies and stages designs, that no matter how much you look at them, they don't get stucked with what the series

I'd took generic trolls and goblins every day over flying bulldogs and crazy coloured griffons or whatever they were called.

a general scenario that you meet in almost every action drama movies!!!

And CV plots were really unique before...?
Once again I have a strong suspicion that you have a strong nostalgia goggles. Because, practically all CV games had a very generic story. Even SOTN.

No, is not childish. You can't take a general title, put some names on it and call it the next step to the series, when it doesn't have more than 5%? to do with what Castlevania series were known for.

'Tis like your opinion.

I must add that, I like many of the previous Castlevania games. I even like Haunted Castle and consider it to be a very beatiful game in its own right (and on the lower difficulty). My absolute favorites in the series are CV1, CV2, SCV4, COTM, CV64, LOI and OOE. The only game in the series that I vehemently dislike os HOD for being just bad in many regards. I treat LOS as its own unique approach to the Castlevania and I don't see any neccesary to hate it for being deattached form CV previous entries. The same goes for practically all games in the series, as I am mostly try to see them on its own without ties to the previous projects. It is actually really helps to open mind and stop wining, when some of the games go into different direction stylistic-wise and don't conform to the prevous set of rules.

[Dark Nemesis]

My first Castlevania game, was Castlevania the Adventure!!! After that, i went with Castlevania games on nes, later on Snes and Genesis, before i played SOTN. Also, when i played for the first time SOTN, i couldn't speak, write, not a single word in english!!! So, i didn't underestand what the plot was all about!!!

  I know that most people hate Castlevania Adventure, but i love it, as much i love all previous games, with Super Castlevania VI, being my all time favorite!!! I don't prefer metroidvanias over classicvanias or the oposite, i like both genres the same, some games a little more and some other fewer, but still i love every Castlevania game, that has come out!!!

  SOTN, was a big step forward, but still it was having all the classic elements from previous games!!! If you take the coins from Mario and put the Rings from Sonic, along with the platforming from Sonic and in the place of Mario you put some generic fat guy with the name lario, is a step forward for Mario?

  I'm not the one who is still child, but you that you need to grow up, since they are giving you clones from other series and you are accepting it as something revolutionary. If it was something original, i would accept it, but it isn't!!!!

  As for scenarios, they weren't, the best, but i never was fan of the scenarios on Castlevania games, i prefer game play and music, over scenarios and graphics!!!! I'm an oldschool fan and graphics don't work on me, if all the other parts of the game, are not of my taste!!! Also Richter might be as an optional character, but it's still there and playable!!!

  I will say it once more, be original if you want to win me or else, there is nothing to talk about........you can't call rip-offs innovative ideas!!! The only rip-off they had metroidvanias, was the rpg system and exploration style, with the exception of PoR and DoS. Each other game was having its own game play system and that alone, was enough for me to win me!!! As for classic games, i'll take them anytime!!! My last words? Castlevania 64 and LoD, they will be the only true Castlevania 3D!!!

[K.G. Morder]

    a general scenario that you meet in almost every action drama movies!!!

And CV plots were really unique before...?
Once again I have a strong suspicion that you have a strong nostalgia goggles. Because, practically all CV games had a very generic story. Even SOTN.

Not to mention that the classicvanias were made as an homage to old B monster movies. the older classicvanias had film sprockets on the title screen as if you were watching a movie. Its really SoTN that sort of ditched that and started taking itself more seriously. While LoS on the other hand, takes that concept a step beyond, and makes the game feel like a big budget Hollywood movie.


 

I'm not the one who is still child, but you that you need to grow up, since they are giving you clones from other series and you are accepting it as something revolutionary.

A Demon's Souls clone.

the map would be a bit more like Demons Souls/Dark Souls or Batman Arkam City.

>Complain that game is God of War clone
>Say it should be more like Demon's Souls

Never change CVD. Never change.

On top are the goblins from LoS and below are the goblins from lord of the rings games and movies!!!

I dont recall anyone ever complaining about Wargs, Trolls, and Giant Walking Trees and such fantasy enemies in Castlevania before, why the double standard with Goblins?

The Belmont's family against the powers of darkness. In LoS, we see that the family who's supposed to destroy evil, that it turned to be the one who has brought it, by turning the first Belmon't into Dracula.......

And what makes you think the future of the series does not involve Whip wielding Belmonts fighting against Dracula?

LoS simply went a different route with Dracula, so as to connect him to the Belmonts better than LoI did, and to give him better motivations, (even though his transformation to Dracula is too fast, its still much more believable than Mathias' shit)

So this way, Dracula is the Belmont's ancestor and progenitor, fallen to the dark side and returned as a dark overlord. Personally, from a story perspective, it just feels better. Its more of a Darth Vader thing. He was a good guy who became a bad guy, and eventually might redeem himself once the time of the epilogue rolls around.

[Ahasverus]

I just realised that the new Dracula tale is similar to Van Helsing's plot
(and yeah Van helsing is such a Castlevania Clone... emphasis on the castle? legendary local hunter family? the freaking Frankenstein monster? oh god)

[K.G. Morder]

Thats not all...



also the fact that Hugh Jackman could totally pull an awesome Trevor.

[crisis]

So this way, Dracula is the Belmont's ancestor and progenitor,

Which is why this reboot's story will never be as good as the original canon.

All they had to do to please all of us was make it Belmont vs. Dracula. Instead they did Belmont IS Dracula. That's the type of twist I'd expect in a Paul W. S. Anderson Castlevania movie, or perhaps a Uwe Boll-directed adaptation.


I think had MercurySteam stuck with their original pitch, the game would've been received a lot more positively,

Castlevania Lords of Shadow Simon Belmont Beta Footage

[K.G. Morder]

Because Mathias being a bitch in dealing with loss and being an overall asshole who betrays his friend and causes the death of his wife was much better right?

[crisis]

Yeah, actually, it was. Mathias pulls the strings in Lament; he's the mastermind behind the events since after his serving with Leon under God, the sudden death of his wife was an unforgivable betrayal.

Gabriel, on the other hand, is busy being manipulated like a puppet for a few days just to get a God Mask that doesn't really do anything.

Mathias manipulated the characters & events in Lament. Gabriel is manipulated BY the characters in Lords.
Mathias willingly chooses to be the Lord of Darkness. Gabriel is tricked into being the Lord of Darkness.
And it was silly how he was gushing to Satan how God loves everybody & he seeks forgiveness, then suddenly forgets that epic speech not too long after just to "pay a debt." Way to contradict yaself, Gabby!

[Ahasverus]

That's what makes Gabriel a LOT more simpatethic than Mathias. Gabriel wanted to make good, but he was human, and he thought God was going to award him for saving humanity (by returning Marie to life) but He didn't, he felt fooled, and his life had no longer a reason, so he was like "Yeah, whatever"..

The thing is, we DON'T know the motivations for him to become the Lord of Darkness, he WAS NOT TRICKED to become Dracula, he willingly acquired The Forgotten One's power, he willingly destroyed the Vampire KIller, and in  that moment he gained motivations we DON'T KNOW FOR NOW. He could have said "Great now I have unlimited power so I'll became a superhero and kiss babies!" but he didn't, he chose to become a being of darkness. And somehow, I understand his motives.

Mathias is and will always be a whining bitch.

[thernz]

I thought it was explained that the vampire blood pretty much corrupted and made him evil. He was already transitioning into FULL EVIL state while in the chapter, calling out the Forgotten One on his shit and etc.

[K.G. Morder]

Except we actually get to know Gabriel. He is mourning his wife, and doing his quest out of hope. Since the rumors are he could bring her back. In the end, he finds out that he was manipulated into decapitating her, and that the one he thought was his sole trustworthy companion was the one pulling the strings, trying to kill the other Lords to get their pieces of the mask so he could become all powerful. And he in turn was being manipulated by Satan, of all people. So in all, it was all orchestrated by Satan so he could fight God, and after defeating Satan himself and freeing the souls that were trapped in limbo, he still ended with nothing except the murder of his wife, an innocent girl who was the last of her kind, and the caring golem that had protected her for ages, all on his conscience, whily almost starting to admit that the necromancer was right about him reveling in death and being a harbinger of destruction. He did it all for nothing, and after all that, learns that because he defeated the Lords of Shadow, he released the destructive demon their powers were keeping imprisoned in the first place, and has to sacrifice his humanity and become a monster in order to defeat it, something which also changes him in heart and soul. He went full circle and became a monster. He became much like the Lords of Shadow.

He actually has a character, no matter if it could have been presented differently.

Mathias on the other hand is a complete asspull who has no backstory whatsoever, and we never even SEE him until the ending. We dont get to see his friendship with Leon, or his grief over his wife's death, or even his descent to madness. No. As far as we know, he learns his wife dies, and decides to become a vampire in order to defy God and live forever. So he plans to steal the Vampire Walter's soul, but knows noone can defeat him while he has the Ebony Stone, so he decides to screw over his Best friend's wife by having Walter kidnap her, knowing that sacrificing her soul will let Leon kill Walter, allowing him to step in and steal his soul with the Crimson stone. And then, as if he DIDNT just orchestrate the death of his wife, invites Leon to be a vampire too.

Also, Leon was every bit as manipulated as Gabriel was. it was just done slightly differently.

[crisis]

He was tricked. Zobek "duped" him into getting the pieces of the mask, Marie led him on by not telling him the truth (i.e. "tricking" him), Pan spoke to him in riddles, etc. But even after all that, Gabriel gave a heart-felt speech to SATAN that God is good blah blah, but not too long after he changes his mind by saying God "abandonded" him, thus contradicting what he said to the devil himself. But then he seemingly usurps Satan/Forgotton One cuz he can, and grows a pair of fangs in the process.

And I thought people were against Dracula being "sympathetic."

we never even SEE him until the ending

That's exactly how Dracula operates in every game.

So I guess this all boils down to "we get to actually see Gabby's backstory, but not Mathias' therefore Gabby is a better Dracula." Gabriel's story was fine if he would've remained a Belmont, and a pre-Dracula would've came in at the end instead of Satan. It would've mirrored Lament's end, since the game does it's best to imitate that game anyway so why not. But wait, the twist is what's important, and what better & more shocking than to make the hero turn EVIL

Mathias is and will always be a whining bitch.

Excellent way to close an arguement